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Excel - Set aside WON & CASE WON - Excel defeated AGAIN!

milkybk
milkybk Posts: 328 Forumite
Sixth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
edited 11 July 2023 at 11:22AM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Hi - I received a letter from DCBL LTD last night, claiming I have a CCJ against my name for money owed to "Excel Parking Services Limited". There's no details on said letter about where the charge was issued, not even a City or a date. To be clear, this the first letter I've ever received at this address regarding this matter and I never received any others whilst living in Milton Keynes.

I believe it's relating to a previous thread I posted in 2017 - link I went through the appeal process for this and Excel just stopped contacting me one day.

The letter is from DCBL LTD with 14 days to reply, having read the newbies threads it would appear this one is a pure debt collection letter and should be ignored. Anything from DCBL Legal with 30 days notice to reply shouldn't be though. The letter also states "This case is not subject to High Court or Bailiff action", which again means it's just a debt collectors letter at this point. Letter shown below in spoilers due to size, with address etc removed:

Letter side 1:

Letter side 2:

Due to them stating I had a CCJ, I decided to check my Experian credit report last night and it's showing no CCJ's against my name. See image below (in spoiler due to sizing issue it would appear!):

I then decided to also pay a small fee to check everything on "TrustOnline", as it was recommended on gov.uk. They sent me two reports back. The first one was a general check on my name and states all clear, no CCJ's against my name. They then sent me a 2nd one, which was for the specific case number on the DCBL letter. This one stated I have an "unsatisfied record" against my name. It came back with an address I haven't lived at for around 4-5 years in Sheffield (I've lived in Milton Keynes since). Unfortunately it didn't give any more case details e.g. when the ticket was issued etc.

These can be found in the spoiler below, with address etc removed:

General check:

Specific case number report:

I haven't contacted DCBL in any form. I'm slightly confused, as whilst it appears my record is clear of CCJ's, their letter states I have one (potentially a fraudulent scare tactic I presume) and I do have something showing on one of these searches, although it's not clear what that actually means. Anyone experienced similar? Is there a way to look up details on this alleged parking charge without contacting DCBL?

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Comments

  • D_P_Dance
    D_P_Dance Posts: 11,547 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Delete last line?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
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    Not a parking charge issue , but a legal issue

    Try legal beagles forum , ask on there , or on CAG forums instead
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 42,147 Forumite
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    Agree 👆

    You need to urgently get to the bottom of the claim and judgment and if in fact it had been lodged at a very old address, then you need to start the process of getting the judgment set aside, possibly having the whole case against you thrown out, or, more likely, allowing you the opportunity to defend the charge once the PPC has provided you with details of their claim. A set aside for 'bad service' (ie, to an incorrect address) is all but guaranteed. 

    A set aside will cost you up to £255, which you may be able to recover from the PPC, which is not much different to the amount of the judgment, but do not be tempted to pay off the judgment thinking that it will settle everything. While the PPC will be smiling at their good fortune, I'm afraid you won't. Not only will you have shelled out £257, the credit-affecting CCJ will still remain with you for 6 years. 

    The NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post, has very detailed guidance on applying for a set aside, and our resident set aside expert, @henrik777, will no doubt provide input at the right time. 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • milkybk
    milkybk Posts: 328 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    D_P_Dance said:
    Delete last line?
    Done, thank you!

    Redx said:
    Not a parking charge issue , but a legal issue

    Try legal beagles forum , ask on there , or on CAG forums instead
    Ok thanks for your advise, I've made a post on LB to start with.  :)

    Umkomaas said:
    Agree 👆

    You need to urgently get to the bottom of the claim and judgment and if in fact it had been lodged at a very old address, then you need to start the process of getting the judgment set aside, possibly having the whole case against you thrown out, or, more likely, allowing you the opportunity to defend the charge once the PPC has provided you with details of their claim. A set aside for 'bad service' (ie, to an incorrect address) is all but guaranteed. 

    A set aside will cost you up to £255, which you may be able to recover from the PPC, which is not much different to the amount of the judgment, but do not be tempted to pay off the judgment thinking that it will settle everything. While the PPC will be smiling at their good fortune, I'm afraid you won't. Not only will you have shelled out £257, the credit-affecting CCJ will still remain with you for 6 years. 

    The NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post, has very detailed guidance on applying for a set aside, and our resident set aside expert, @henrik777, will no doubt provide input at the right time. 
    Ok, again thank you for your swift advice, it's much appreciated. I'll update this thread with info as things move along, as it may help someone else in the future.
  • milkybk
    milkybk Posts: 328 Forumite
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    edited 30 June 2021 at 10:37AM
    Hi all - so I've just spoken to Northampton CCBC. They're sending me all the info they have via email, along with the forms etc for a set aside N244.

    Info they gave me over the phone:
    • There is indeed a CCJ lodged against my name.
    • It was submitted on 3rd September 2020 by Elms Legal on behalf of Excel.
    • I never received any correspondence from this company at any address.
    • The CCJ was submitted against my old Sheffield address - which I haven't lived out for 5+ years.
    They didn't know anything about DCBL - but said it was strange they were able to find the new address but nobody else has used it.

    Other notes about case:
    The car was sold before moving to Milton Keynes, I believe in March 2017. I traded it in for a new car I had on order. The original Excel letter (which I appealed) said the ticket was from January 2017.

    I moved to Milton Keynes in November 2017. I lived at an address for 6 months when I first moved, before finally moving into the property I'm in now (which I've been in ever since). I also updated all V5's when I moved here.
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
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    edited 30 June 2021 at 11:33AM
    Subsequently selling the vehicle is irrelevant , it was yours when the incident occurred

    Updating the V5C isn't relevant because Excel are only allowed to obtain keeper details once , and once only , which is what they will have done before you appealed it

    A £255 set aside should be very straightforward due to service of court claim papers at an incorrect address , they should have traced you using a tracing service
  • milkybk
    milkybk Posts: 328 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 30 June 2021 at 12:00PM
    Redx said:
    Subsequently selling the vehicle is irrelevant , it was yours when the incident occurred

    Updating the V5C isn't relevant because Excel are only allowed to obtain keeper details once , and once only , which is what they will have done before you appealed it

    A £255 set aside should be very straightforward due to service of court claim papers at an incorrect address , they should have traced you using a tracing service
    Hi - I wasn't saying it exonerates me of any alleged wrongdoing. I posted it was sold as part of an answer to a post on LB about V5's being up to date etc. However given it was sold before moving address it wasn't changed, I should have given a bit more context, apologies.

    Ok cool, thanks for your input. I haven't seen any court claim papers as they've gone to the wrong address I presume, should I be requesting those before submitting the set aside? Would that be part of the SAR? My intention was to do the set aside today.
  • milkybk
    milkybk Posts: 328 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 30 June 2021 at 5:15PM
    I've just been reading through all the set aside threads/posts linked in the newbies section. I've been reading through this thread - link and @henrik777 recommends the original poster contacts the parking company and asks them to consent to a set aside for the CCJ before filing the N244.

    My CCJ was filed by Elms Legal on behalf of Excel and I'm now being chased by DCBL - Should I send my email directly to Excel, Elms or DCBL or all 3 of them?

    My email will read:

    Dear Excel Parking Services Limited,

    On XXXXX you issued a county court claim against me to recover the outstanding amount for an unpaid ticket relating to a parking event that took place on XXXXXX.

    To do so you attempted service at the XXXXXXX, an address I had not lived at for some time.

    An Experian credit search of the electoral roll records and connections clearly show that I occupied XXXXXXX until NOVEMBER 2017 with 2 addresses dated after this particular one, therefore I find it difficult to comprehend that Excel believed this to be my current address. I engaged with yourselves through an appeal process in 2017, therefore there was reason to believe from my silence in the years 2018 - 2020 (when presumably you filed a claim, after presumably some more letters) that I were no longer at the original address from 2017.

    In addition my credit report shows I took out 3 credit cards at my current address. I also have a loan, phone contract and utility bills all registered to my current address, all of these were registered before the CCJ was served at my old address. In total my credit report shows that I have 10 active accounts and 7 settled account, all registered at my current address before the CCJ was served at my old address. My credit report also shows that I've never had a defaulted or late payment.

    My current account, utilities, phone contract and all forms of borrowing were registered at my current address before the CCJ was server at my previous address. I was not hiding and could have been easily found if Excel had taken reasonable step to do so.

    For this reason it is clear that the claimant (Excel) failed to take reasonable steps to ascertain the address of the defendant’s (myself) current residence or place of business (‘current address’).

    As service was defective and not valid, the court must set aside your judgment pursuant to CPR 13.2

    http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part13#13.2

    Cases where the court must set aside judgment entered under Part 12

    13.2 The court must set aside a judgment entered under Part 12 if judgment was wrongly entered because–

    (a) in the case of a judgment in default of an acknowledgment of service, any of the conditions in rule 12.3(1) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied

    Conditions to be satisfied
    12.3

    (1) The claimant may obtain judgment in default of an acknowledgment of service only if –

    (a) the defendant has not filed an acknowledgment of service or a defence to the claim (or any part of the claim); and

    (b) the relevant time for doing so has expired.

    http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part12#12.3

    The relevant time for filing an acknowledgement of service

    http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part10#10.3

    The period for filing an acknowledgment of service
    10.3

    (1) The general rule is that the period for filing an acknowledgment of service is –

    (a) where the defendant is served with a claim form which states that particulars of claim are to follow, 14 days after service of the particulars of claim; and

    (b) in any other case, 14 days after service of the claim form.

    (2) The general rule is subject to the following rules –

    (a) rule 6.35 (which specifies how the period for filing an acknowledgment of service is calculated where the claim form is served out of the jurisdiction under rule 6.32 or 6.33);

    (b) rule 6.12(3) (which requires the court to specify the period for responding to the particulars of claim when it makes an order under that rule); and

    (c) rule 6.37(5) (which requires the court to specify the period within which the defendant may file an acknowledgment of service calculated by reference to Practice Direction 6B when it makes an order giving permission to serve a claim form out of the jurisdiction).

    If the claim form was not served (or validly served as some may put it) the time limit for acknowledging service has not begun. If it hasn't begun it can't have expired. If it hasn't expired that is a mandatory set aside.

    This is on point with the court of appeal in Dubai Financial Group Llc v National Private Air Transport Services Company (National Air Services) Ltd [2016] EWCA Civ 71 (09 February 2016)

    Moreover, I do not consider that the CPR presents an obstacle in the circumstances of this case to setting aside judgment. CPR 13.2 provides that the court must set aside a default judgment where any of the conditions in rule 12.3(1) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied. The latter provision does not apply, but the former is relevant. CPR 12.3(1) states that a claimant may obtain judgment in default of an acknowledgment of service only if (a) the defendant has not filed an acknowledgment of service or a defence and (b) the relevant time for doing so has expired (my italics). I accept Mr McLaren's argument that, when an order for retrospective validation of an alternative method of service has been made pursuant to CPR 6.15(2) the relevant time for filing an acknowledgment of service is the period which the court must specify under CPR 6.15(4)(c). Where, as in this case, the court did not specify any such time there can be no relevant time which has expired for the purposes of CPR 12.3(1). If this analysis is correct the requirements of CPR 12.3(1)(b) have not been satisfied and so the court is obliged to set aside the default judgment pursuant to CPR 13.2(a).

    I do not see it as a draconian consequence that a judgment, obtained after deemed service has been effected without specifying a time for that service to be acknowledged, should be set aside as of right in such a case. I agree that CPR 13.2 specifies the circumstances in which a default judgment must be set aside and in my judgment one of those circumstances is when judgment is entered in default of an acknowledgment of service when "any of the conditions in rule 12.3(1)…was not satisfied". Here one such condition was not satisfied, namely the time for acknowledgement of service had not expired, because none had ever become applicable.
    This, to my mind, is not "playing technical games" (c.f. the passage from the Abela case, cited at paragraph 11 in the judgment of Longmore LJ). It is merely applying the principle that due process should be followed. If a defendant has never become under a valid obligation to acknowledge service, either as specified under the rules or by order of the court, I do not see how it can be that a judgment can be entered against him in default of such acknowledgment. He is simply not in default at all.

    In light of the above, and the over riding objectives (CPR 1) i invite you to consent to a mandatory set aside, with the costs bourne by yourselves which will be cheaper than obtaining the same result without consent.

    If you would like me to provide a copy of my credit report, please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Please respond within 7 days.

    Kind regards,
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 140,157 Forumite
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    edited 30 June 2021 at 4:07PM
    Send it to Excel and Elms (and ignore DCB Ltd because that letter says it's not subject to High Court action).

    Excel's email is always on the bottom of the NTK, I think.

    Expect Excel to ask you to pay £125 to settle it.   Up to you.  It would also cost you £100 for a 'consented' set aside  N244 application without a hearing, and no money being awarded back so you would be £225 down to wipe the CCJ that way.

    I wouldn't - I'd crack on with a contested set aside for £255 and hope to get that money back on the basis that they used an old address and made no effort to trace you before filing a claim many years after your appeal correspondence.  As you had engaged in 2017, there was reason to believe from your silence in the years 2018 - 2020 (when they finally filed a claim, after presumably some more letters) that you were no longer at the address from 2017.

    The 2 examples in the NEWBIES thread show £255 being awarded against the parking firms and this has been the norm on this forum in most cases and all set asides have been granted.
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  • milkybk
    milkybk Posts: 328 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Send it to Excel and Elms (and ignore DCB Ltd because that letter says it's not subject to High Court action).

    Excel's email is always on the bottom of the NTK, I think.

    Expect Excel to ask you to pay £125 to settle it.   Up to you.  It would also cost you £100 for a 'consented' set aside  N244 application without a hearing, and no money being awarded back so you would be £225 down to wipe the CCJ that way.

    I wouldn't - I'd crack on with a contested set aside for £255 and hope to get that money back on the basis that they used an old address and made no effort to trace you before filing a claim many years after your appeal correspondence.  As you had engaged in 2017, there was reason to believe from your silence in the years 2018 - 2020 (when they finally filed a claim, after presumably some more letters) that you were no longer at the address from 2017.

    The 2 examples in the NEWBIES thread show £255 being awarded against the parking firms and this has been the norm on this forum in most cases and all set asides have been granted.
    Hi - thanks for taking the time to reply. Yes I saw all those successful newbie threads, I expect my result to be no different!

    I'm happy to move forward with the court hearing, I just know I should contact them first. With regards to the content of the email I'll send both Excel and Elms - do you think it's okay? Is there anything you feel I should add/remove or change?

    Appreciate the support. 
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