Economy crash =/= stock market crash?

Type_45

I also don't know if his figures are correct. I haven't checked. I didn't think the USA was in quite that much debt. I thought it was $30tn.

Type_45

One of my biggest concerns is what could happen to digital money.

It's entirely possible that it could disappear when the new financial system replaces this broken one

And that means what you have in the bank, your stocks, and anything else which is only represented by digits on your device screens.

Don't think it can't happen. 

lozzy1965

Type_45 said:

One of my biggest concerns is what could happen to digital money.

It's entirely possible that it could disappear when the new financial system replaces this broken one

Facepalm! Not again!!!

Type_45 said:

And that means what you have in the bank, your stocks, and anything else which is only represented by digits on your device screens.

Don't think it can't happen.

In any realistic sane world view it can't happen.

Linton

Type_45 said:

One of my biggest concerns is what could happen to digital money.

It's entirely possible that it could disappear when the new financial system replaces this broken one

And that means what you have in the bank, your stocks, and anything else which is only represented by digits on your device screens.

Don't think it can't happen. 

Presumably that must imply that all your debts including your mortgage disappear as well?  

 "stocks" as in shares are not represented by money, but rather by number of shares each of which will have a value in terms of whatever currency happens to be around at the time.  Or are you claiming that all numbers in all computers will disappear?

Malthusian

Type_45 said:

One of my biggest concerns is what could happen to digital money.

It's entirely possible that it could disappear when the new financial system replaces this broken one

And that means what you have in the bank, your stocks, and anything else which is only represented by digits on your device screens.

Don't think it can't happen. 

I will bet you £1,000 of digital money that it never happens. As "never" is unfalsifiable, here is the bet: if you send me £5 via bank transfer every year that neither the UK nor the US government has declared all digital holdings of GBP / USD cash to be void, I will send you £1,000 plus your accumulated stake when it happens.

What have you got to lose? It's only digital money.

Stocks cannot "disappear". A building, a piece of machinery or a widget sitting in a warehouse awaiting shipping is a real thing. A billionth share in one of those things, represented by a stock, is a real thing by induction. You can forcibly transfer that share to someone or something else, but you can't make it disappear. Not unless you carve a billionth-sized slither off everything the corporation owns and then burn it, at the same time as declaring the share to be void.

Adyinvestment

In Internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. Wikipedia

Type_45

Linton said:

Type_45 said:

One of my biggest concerns is what could happen to digital money.

It's entirely possible that it could disappear when the new financial system replaces this broken one

And that means what you have in the bank, your stocks, and anything else which is only represented by digits on your device screens.

Don't think it can't happen. 

Presumably that must imply that all your debts including your mortgage disappear as well?  

 "stocks" as in shares are not represented by money, but rather by number of shares each of which will have a value in terms of whatever currency happens to be around at the time.  Or are you claiming that all numbers in all computers will disappear?

A debt jubilee is entirely possible. Credit cards, mortgages etc. And that would be great news for millions of people. A large number of people owe as much money as they have in equity/savings/investments, so it would suit many people and families.

It would hollow out the middle classes, however.

Type_45

Malthusian said:

Type_45 said:

One of my biggest concerns is what could happen to digital money.

It's entirely possible that it could disappear when the new financial system replaces this broken one

And that means what you have in the bank, your stocks, and anything else which is only represented by digits on your device screens.

Don't think it can't happen. 

I will bet you £1,000 of digital money that it never happens. As "never" is unfalsifiable, here is the bet: if you send me £5 via bank transfer every year that neither the UK nor the US government has declared all digital holdings of GBP / USD cash to be void, I will send you £1,000 plus your accumulated stake when it happens.

What have you got to lose? It's only digital money.

Stocks cannot "disappear". A building, a piece of machinery or a widget sitting in a warehouse awaiting shipping is a real thing. A billionth share in one of those things, represented by a stock, is a real thing by induction. You can forcibly transfer that share to someone or something else, but you can't make it disappear. Not unless you carve a billionth-sized slither off everything the corporation owns and then burn it, at the same time as declaring the share to be void.

I am interested in this. But we need to get some things agreed.

The GBP and USD are being intentionally crushed. But what they are replaced with (CBDCs, ultimately), may also be called GBP/USD. Or perhaps, before that, may come some other type of material change to the currencies yet still they keep their current name. So we need to agree on how to decide such a change has come into effect. 

Also, instead of £1000, I would like my prize to be paid in an agreed amount of gold. How about a 2022 Gold Britannia? Or three 2022 gold sovereigns?

Malthusian

Type_45 said:

I am interested in this. But we need to get some things agreed.

The GBP and USD are being intentionally crushed. But what they are reolaced with "CBDCs", ultimately, may also be called GBP/USD.

If you're going to try to change the proposed bet from "£1,000 if all digital money disappears" to "£1,000 if all digital money is converted to a different electronic format" then I've just lost interest.

A debt jubilee is entirely possible. Credit cards, mortgages etc. And that would be great news for millions of people. A large number of people owe as much money as they have in equity/savings/investments, so it would suit many people and families.

It would hollow out the middle classes, however.

In the short term the middle classes would be the biggest beneficiaries, as they are the most leveraged thanks to their mortgages.

The impoverished would benefit less than the middle classes by two orders of magnitude, as they would only "gain" a few hundred or thousand quid in forgiven unsecured and short-term debt.

Moreover, the really hard-up can have their own personal debt jubilee any time they like by applying for a Debt Relief Order, so an enforced mass jubilee doesn't give them anything they don't already have.

In the long run of course everyone loses from the abolition of credit, but you already knew that.

Type_45

Malthusian said:

Type_45 said:

I am interested in this. But we need to get some things agreed.

The GBP and USD are being intentionally crushed. But what they are reolaced with "CBDCs", ultimately, may also be called GBP/USD.

If you're going to try to change the proposed bet from "£1,000 if all digital money disappears" to "£1,000 if all digital money is converted to a different electronic format" then I've just lost interest.

A debt jubilee is entirely possible. Credit cards, mortgages etc. And that would be great news for millions of people. A large number of people owe as much money as they have in equity/savings/investments, so it would suit many people and families.

It would hollow out the middle classes, however.

In the short term the middle classes would be the biggest beneficiaries, as they are the most leveraged thanks to their mortgages.

The impoverished would benefit less than the middle classes by two orders of magnitude, as they would only "gain" a few hundred or thousand quid in forgiven unsecured and short-term debt.

Moreover, the really hard-up can have their own personal debt jubilee any time they like by applying for a Debt Relief Order, so an enforced mass jubilee doesn't give them anything they don't already have.

In the long run of course everyone loses from the abolition of credit, but you already knew that.

My definition of middle class is perhaps different from other people's. I meant people with high net worths. People with high net worths will obviously be screwed over by such a scenario.

People with mortgages and savings (whatever class they are considered to be) won't mind so much as their debts and equity/savings mostly cancel each other out. 

Wealthy people will possibly be OK as they likely own hard assets such as land, real estate, companies, precious metals etc. 

And the poorest people will probably be better off, as you say, by a few grand as their debts will disappear.