Legacy benefits

poppy12345

Pok3mon said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Pok3mon said:

There is very little in the way or restrictions now so why would people need the extra money still?

Lots of people still on furlough, lots of people still looking for jobs, lots of types of businesses cannot reopen and many that can have decreased revenue still - what the government says is safe and what people (customers) feel is safe are not necessarily the same.  Plenty of self-employed people - especially those in the hospitality, arts, and events which still have restrictions - have very little income from their work. 

(Musicians especially have been absolutely hammered with Brexit as well, nothing to do with covid but a double whammy with the timing, little to no income then on top of that it's expensive and complicated to even be allowed to travel to the EU for work.)

But they will be on UC so wont affect them.

This doesn't mean they're not still affected. There are people on low income that work and claim UC.

Spoonie_Turtle

Pok3mon said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Pok3mon said:

There is very little in the way or restrictions now so why would people need the extra money still?

Lots of people still on furlough, lots of people still looking for jobs, lots of types of businesses cannot reopen and many that can have decreased revenue still - what the government says is safe and what people (customers) feel is safe are not necessarily the same.  Plenty of self-employed people - especially those in the hospitality, arts, and events which still have restrictions - have very little income from their work. 

(Musicians especially have been absolutely hammered with Brexit as well, nothing to do with covid but a double whammy with the timing, little to no income then on top of that it's expensive and complicated to even be allowed to travel to the EU for work.)

But they will be on UC so wont affect them. Again unless you are socialising everything is normal.

Oh I think I misunderstood, I thought you were questioning why the uplift on UC/WTC was still in place. 

If in fact you meant for legacy benefits then I sort of agree but not quite, because lots of unwell people (i.e. on ESA) do not feel comfortable resuming life as normal - public transport, shopping in person, meals out - so there may be an argument that some could still do with the extra money e.g. for taxis (because they HAVE to go in person to some places now that restrictions have eased), delivery services, etc.  Those factors are completely unrelated to the rationale for the UC/WTC uplift though.

calcotti

I think the ruling mindset in UK is somewhat different to that in Switzerland.

Gig1968

Haven't been on for a while. Interesting thread. One of my favourites the non legacy benefits increase.
I'm so glad the government is being dragged into the High court to explain why it hasn't increased all benefits due to covid. I really hope those judges find that they have been unlawfull in not increasing them. I must admit their defence looks weak. Teresa Coffey ( thework and pensions minister ) suggested if people on legacy benefits wanted the £20 uplift they were welcome to move to universal credit. Does that not prove the point! Then  the Department of work and pensions a select committee an all party group suggested the uplift was told my madam Coffey that the computer systems would never be able to handle the situation during the pandemic. I'm sure the judges will take that into account.

Let's look into how it  affected Life on ESA.

Using taxis instaed of public transport £5 per trip to town. Bus pass free.
Extra costs to get prescriptions {taxi)

Extra costs to get to hospital (taxi)

Extra fuel costs for being in 24/7 during lockdown

Therefore the legacy benefits should have been increased as it had the same effect on all people on benefits. The pandemic caused problems pain and financialmcost to everyone not just those on universal credit and I'm hoping those judges see it the same way and the government  especially Mrs coffey has to get her hands deep in her pockets and pay out

MattMattMattUK

Gig1968 said:

Haven't been on for a while. Interesting thread. One of my favourites the non legacy benefits increase.
I'm so glad the government is being dragged into the High court to explain why it hasn't increased all benefits due to covid. I really hope those judges find that they have been unlawfull in not increasing them. I must admit their defence looks weak. Teresa Coffey ( thework and pensions minister ) suggested if people on legacy benefits wanted the £20 uplift they were welcome to move to universal credit. Does that not prove the point! Then  the Department of work and pensions a select committee an all party group suggested the uplift was told my madam Coffey that the computer systems would never be able to handle the situation during the pandemic. I'm sure the judges will take that into account.

The government has already largely explained why legacy benefits were not raised at the same time as UC, which is that legacy benefits are already higher than UC. I can not see how it could in reality be deemed unlawful as the group on legacy benefits were not discriminated against, they were already in a superior position, but it will be interesting to see how the case progresses.

Gig1968 said:

Let's look into how it  affected Life on ESA.

Using taxis instaed of public transport £5 per trip to town. Bus pass free.
Extra costs to get prescriptions {taxi)

Extra costs to get to hospital (taxi)

Extra fuel costs for being in 24/7 during lockdown

Many people faced increased costs of various elements due to the economic and social disruption caused by Covid, many others made savings in different areas. Most of the cost you have listed there seem to relate to a high usage of taxis, something which would have been a personal decision as busses still operated and there were alternatives for shopping and prescriptions (deliveries).

Gig1968 said:

Therefore the legacy benefits should have been increased as it had the same effect on all people on benefits. The pandemic caused problems pain and financialmcost to everyone not just those on universal credit and I'm hoping those judges see it the same way and the government  especially Mrs coffey has to get her hands deep in her pockets and pay out

The legacy benefits were already higher than UC, it is not "Mrs coffey" who would be paying out for any additional amount, it would be taxpayers, who quite frankly have already had far too much of their money thrown around and wasted by this government. 

poppy12345

MattMattMattUK said:

Gig1968 said:

Haven't been on for a while. Interesting thread. One of my favourites the non legacy benefits increase.
I'm so glad the government is being dragged into the High court to explain why it hasn't increased all benefits due to covid. I really hope those judges find that they have been unlawfull in not increasing them. I must admit their defence looks weak. Teresa Coffey ( thework and pensions minister ) suggested if people on legacy benefits wanted the £20 uplift they were welcome to move to universal credit. Does that not prove the point! Then  the Department of work and pensions a select committee an all party group suggested the uplift was told my madam Coffey that the computer systems would never be able to handle the situation during the pandemic. I'm sure the judges will take that into account.

The government has already largely explained why legacy benefits were not raised at the same time as UC, which is that legacy benefits are already higher than UC.

That's not exactly correct in some cases. Yes, those that are claiming the Severe Disability premium (SDP) in another benefit such as ESA will be receiving more than if they claimed UC. However, those that are in ESA Support Group for ESA without the SDP will be receiving less than they would if they claimed UC with the LCWRA. They could if they wanted move to UC but doing so scares a lot of people.

calcotti

MattMattMattUK said:.. legacy benefits are already higher than UC. 

As poppy says, that is simply not correct. Ignoring the temporary uplift some people are better off on UC, some are worse off. It depends on circumstances. The reality is that when changes are made there are always winners and losers (unless there is a significant increase in funding).

However the government did explain that the £20 uplift was targeted at those in work who were being hit by COVID which is why it was applied to Working Tax Credits and UC. The lucky additional beneficiaries were those on UC not in work who also got the uplift because it would have been too complicated to only apply the pif to those with awnings included in their UC calculations.

MattMattMattUK

poppy12345 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Gig1968 said:

Haven't been on for a while. Interesting thread. One of my favourites the non legacy benefits increase.
I'm so glad the government is being dragged into the High court to explain why it hasn't increased all benefits due to covid. I really hope those judges find that they have been unlawfull in not increasing them. I must admit their defence looks weak. Teresa Coffey ( thework and pensions minister ) suggested if people on legacy benefits wanted the £20 uplift they were welcome to move to universal credit. Does that not prove the point! Then  the Department of work and pensions a select committee an all party group suggested the uplift was told my madam Coffey that the computer systems would never be able to handle the situation during the pandemic. I'm sure the judges will take that into account.

The government has already largely explained why legacy benefits were not raised at the same time as UC, which is that legacy benefits are already higher than UC.

That's not exactly correct in some cases. Yes, those that are claiming the Severe Disability premium (SDP) in another benefit such as ESA will be receiving more than if they claimed UC. However, those that are in ESA Support Group for ESA without the SDP will be receiving less than they would if they claimed UC with the LCWRA. They could if they wanted move to UC but doing so scares a lot of people.

That unfortunately means, that for that small cohort they have wilfully chosen not to take the higher amount, I can not see on what possible grounds a court could find that unlawful or discriminatory. 

Lanzarote1938

I receive a legacy benefit, it is SRP. Think of the eyewatering cost of giving pensioners an extra £20 a week!

We used pharmacy2U for medication so no need for cost to get them, patient transport for trips to hospital so no extra cost there.

Gig1968

Interesting comments.....
The judge will decide of course.
Where the government will lose is their comment ( if those on ESA wish to transfer to Universal Credit and gain the extra £20 uplift they are quite welcome too), does that not just prove the point that people on old style ESA should be entitled to a £20 uplift. I'm not sure Mr judge will take tpo kindly to a minister telling claimants that you are better off in universal credit..  Surely unlawful.  How can people keep saying that the uplift for universal credit was for people who were badly affected by covid financially, but  anyone on ESA can move to it so must be affected in the same way too..  But by the same token they are not affected financially  it if they stay on ESA legacy benefit.Mr judge I await your decision.