Sold car privately - buyer wants refund

DGDG

I recently sold my car to a dealer. One issue is that the mileage does not look right on the MOTs, on one occasion the mileage on the MOT was reported as having gone down vs the prior year! I have no idea why this has happened and I had never noticed this before the buyer made me aware of it. To make matters worse the garage that services the car has not been filling out the service book properly, so the whole thing looks like a mess. Their records are also showing variances in the mileage that are difficult to explain. Your guess is as good as mine as to why this has happened. 

This was discussed prior to the sale  - in fact it was the buyer who brought this to my attention so he clearly knew about it prior to the purchase. I understand that this looks all kinds of wrong but I have not hidden anything from the buyer, I made all paperwork available to him before he bought the car. He is now accusing me of having sold him a clocked car, and has informed me that doing so is a criminal offence. I know nothing about cars so this is all new to me. I have definitely not had anything done to the mileage, this must be some kind of a clerical error or there is an issue with the car which causes these variations but whatever it is I have nothing to do with it. The buyer now wants to return the car for a full refund or he will take legal action. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The last thing I want is to go to the small claims court so I’d like to find the best possible solution. Should we take the car to an authorised dealer to have this claim checked? Surely there must be a way to establish whether the mileage has in fact been interfered with? 

AdrianC

Selling a car with incorrect mileage is not in itself an offence. Using that incorrect mileage to gain more money is the offence (so selling a 90k car for the higher value of a 40k one by clocking it...).

The time to have noticed the errors in the recording of the mileage on the MOTs and service history were when they were done - you can get an incorrect mileage on an MOT corrected within 28 days by the tester.
After that, you need to submit evidence to DVSA. The longer ago, the more proof you'll need.
https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/correcting-mot-certificate-mistakes

As far as this deal goes, though - you are a private seller. There is no legal comeback against you unless he can prove fraud. On top of that, he's a trader, so there's an expectation that he should know what he's doing. He should have checked the paperwork BEFORE committing to the deal. He's threatening "legal action", but almost certainly won't ultimately take it. Ignore him. If he DOES lodge a small claim (<£10k?), then you have an excellent defence.

DGDG

Thank you AdrianC. 

I will definitely check the mileage on every MOT going forward, lesson learnt!

I do feel that the buyer had every opportunity to back out of the deal prior to committing as everything including years of paperwork from the garage were made available to him but the small claims court can be a scary place, as evidenced in some previous threads here. I would rather avoid it if at all possible, which is why I was thinking that letting someone authorised have a look at it could be helpful in settling this.

caprikid1

Whats the value of the car, make and model ? To be honest the dealer is considered to be an expert and you are not. He could have a large challenge on his hands succesfully getting a judgement against you. How long has the dealer had the car ? He is most likely chancing his arm as he has tested the market and now feels he overpaid.

ontheroad1970

As above.  He was aware of the situation and did the deal on that basis.  He's probably struggling the resell the car at the price he wants, and is chancing his arm.  Block his number, and keep an eye out for court documents in the post.  Don't ignore these, if undefended, he would get judgment by default.  However, I doubt it will get to that point.

motorguy

Hes a motor trader, therefore deemed to be the expert.

Even if you hadnt told him anything, it would be up to him to due his due diligence and find this out.

scrappy_returns

Offer to take it off him for a full refund minus a generous restocking fee. Then sell the motor privately. 
This of course won't happen but you could offer.

motorguy

scrappy_returns said:

Offer to take it off him for a full refund minus a generous restocking fee. Then sell the motor privately. 
This of course won't happen but you could offer.

i wouldnt do that even in jest.  

IF the trader pursued it and it did eventually end up in court - almost certain it wouldnt but possible - i think the court would take a dim view of it.

DGDG

Thanks everyone.

He’s had it for around three and a half weeks now. I don’t think he overpaid, it was priced to go as we had already found another car, and we had a fair amount of interest in it so I believe he got a pretty fair deal. We haven’t heard anything since a week now, he said he would take it somewhere to have the mileage looked at and that he would get back to us. To be continued I’m sure!

scrappy_returns

motorguy said:

scrappy_returns said:

Offer to take it off him for a full refund minus a generous restocking fee. Then sell the motor privately. 
This of course won't happen but you could offer.

i wouldnt do that even in jest.  

IF the trader pursued it and it did eventually end up in court - almost certain it wouldnt but possible - i think the court would take a dim view of it.

How would it end up in court if they take you up on it?
And if they didn't take you up on it the court would have no view on a price agreed being lower than the original.
It better not in a capitalist country.

motorguy

scrappy_returns said:

motorguy said:

scrappy_returns said:

Offer to take it off him for a full refund minus a generous restocking fee. Then sell the motor privately. 
This of course won't happen but you could offer.

i wouldnt do that even in jest.  

IF the trader pursued it and it did eventually end up in court - almost certain it wouldnt but possible - i think the court would take a dim view of it.

How would it end up in court if they take you up on it?
And if they didn't take you up on it the court would have no view on a price agreed being lower than the original.
It better not in a capitalist country.

Because it suggests that 

(a) the o/p would be open to taking the car back, under certain circumstances
(b) if the o/p starts taking about a "stocking fee" it implies they could be trade, meaning the dealer actually might have some come back
(c) it suggests they're not taking the issue terribly seriously, if its meant in jest.
(d) it could be considered to be antagonising the situation

As such i would see it as muddying the waters unnecessarily.

Break all comms with the buyer, simplest, easiest way.  If they persist and issue some sort of formal letter, the O/P should pass it on to their solicitor.