Are Royal Mint Gold collectors coins classed as savings?

huckster

That is all you need to do.  Provide DWP with the information and let them decide.

Forums can only provide limited help with very specific questions.  Nobody on here knows how many coins you have and exactly what coins you have etc. 

When you contact DWP, provide the Royal Mint information about the coins.

Spoonie_Turtle

huckster said:

That is all you need to do.  Provide DWP with the information and let them decide.

Forums can only provide limited help with very specific questions.  Nobody on here knows how many coins you have and exactly what coins you have etc. 

When you contact DWP, provide the Royal Mint information about the coins.

Which - to be really clear - you can only do by declaring them in the first place, then making sure you add an explanatory note.

HollyNW

Thanks Hookster and Spoonie.

I can’t declare anything I don’t yet own. As I said I’m well under the £6K, I have a few coins of limited value, nothing that would take me close to the limit.

My reason for asking was to clarify the situation before purchasing any more. I can’t exactly declare ‘other savings’ for something I may or may not own in the future.

If they’re going to be classed as savings, meaning I may end up buying coins then being forced to sell them due to DWP sanctions…then I won’t buy them in the first place.

Thats why I’m asking now. Before I do anything wrong, There isn’t anything to declare now,

vacheron

HollyNW said:

......  If they’re going to be classed as savings, meaning I may end up buying coins then being forced to sell them due to DWP sanctions…then I won’t buy them in the first place......

You mentioned this earlier too, but I wasn't near my PC. 
The problem is, if their value puts you over the 6k limit, then if you sell them, you will still be over the limit as you will simply have converted their value into normal (mush easier to quantify) cash, so selling them because of this wouldn't actually change the situation.

Based purely on what people have said earlier in this thread about my comment relating to precious metal (or collectable) watches not being included as they have another puropse, it seems like large poor quality gold bracelets (as were often used as currency in some UK communities) may be the best thing to start "collecting". 

airliner

Unfortunately, there isn't a definitive answer because there's no definition of capital. 

It's not that other posters don't know the answer, it's more that they cannot know the answer.

I understand that this is unpalatable to a degree but only a decision maker, with the full picture of a person's circumstances at the time, will ever know the answer.

You won't be forced to sell anything. If you did sell such coins, because a decision maker treated them as capital, you'd have the cash from the proceeds - which would be treated as capital anyway.

HollyNW

Appreciate that.

The reality is you would have to sell them though. Means tested benefits include your ESA, rent, council tax…You couldn’t sit with these coins for a decade while losing potentially thousands of pounds every year.

Selling them would at least mean you can use that money to pay for any loss in benefits until you go back under the £6K limit. 

Which is why I wouldn’t buy any more if they are classed as savings. Just really hard to find a definition before you do something, after you’ve bought them it’s too late. And you can’t really declare something before you’ve bought them.

It’s a shame, but I do value everyone’s opinion. I just took some to task for constantly questioning what are bullion coins or saying you have to declare them when there’s nothing to back up those statements ha.

Just trying to do the right thing and get some advice before I do anything that may harm my finances.

Thank you.

poppy12345

HollyNW said:

Selling them would at least mean you can use that money to pay for any loss in benefits until you go back under the £6K limit. 

For each £250 (or part there of) over £6,000 there's a £1 per week deduction. (£4.35 per month for Universal Credit). Savings over £16,000 means no entitlement to any means tested benefits.

kaMelo

HollyNW said:

Appreciate that.

The reality is you would have to sell them though. Means tested benefits include your ESA, rent, council tax…You couldn’t sit with these coins for a decade while losing potentially thousands of pounds every year.

Selling them would at least mean you can use that money to pay for any loss in benefits until you go back under the £6K limit. 

Which is why I wouldn’t buy any more if they are classed as savings. Just really hard to find a definition before you do something, after you’ve bought them it’s too late. And you can’t really declare something before you’ve bought them.

It’s a shame, but I do value everyone’s opinion. I just took some to task for constantly questioning what are bullion coins or saying you have to declare them when there’s nothing to back up those statements ha.

Just trying to do the right thing and get some advice before I do anything that may harm my finances.

Thank you.

I think the most important point here is intent, whether your intention in purchasing the coins is for investment or collection purposes. Irrespective of what the rules say, the answer to that question will clarify whether to report or not.


The part of your post I've bolded, I always have an issue when people say things like that as it's looking at things the wrong way around. Viewing benefits as a starting point (rather than a top up) and trying to top them up with other earnings  (rather than earnings being the starting point) is the kind of defensive thinking that keeps people forever trapped on benefits.

HollyNW

Thanks Kamelo. 

You say what counts is whether I buy them to collect or invest and that this is what counts, irrespective of the rules.

I really don’t follow that at all. I don’t think I can just brush aside any rules simply because it’s my intention to collect them. Which it is.

Re the part you chose to highlight in bold, I simply said I wanted advice before I make a decision to purchase some coins. I have absolutely no idea what your further comments relate to sorry. You seem to have some issue that I can’t exactly fathom, but I see nothing wrong in seeking advice before spending several hundreds on coins.

justwhat

HollyNW said:

If anyone can be specific and point to references in the DWP rulings..

Its all very well saying declare it, don’t declare it, it’s the value of the silver that’s to be declared, it’s the face value, it’s the auction value, it’s a personal possession, it’s has no use and isn’t a personal possession, and so on and so on..

And as helpful as all that is, they’re personal opinions. What part of the DWP ruling states collectible coins are different to other personal possessions, jewellery etc and must be declared at their auction price?

DWP - actually mentions jewellery regarding deprivation of capital.
DWP - Do not clarify or give examples of assets V personnel possessions. 
It an iffy subject ...some people buy fine art because they like it , not as an investment.  Surely that's a personal  possession  Also they may pay more than its actual value.