Are Royal Mint Gold collectors coins classed as savings?

HollyNW

Hi

Im currently under the £6K threshold , but that may change in a year or two or I keep saving. Currently claim ESA.

I’ve been collecting a few silver coins from the Royal Mint. These are not the easily sellable bullion type coins, they’re limited editions, uncirculated and come in special collectors packs.

Ive read that basic bullion coins are classed as savings as they are basically just a way of keeping gold/silver and can be easily sold.

I can’t find anything about whether collectors coins are classed as savings. Their value depends entirely on whatt collectors would pay at auction.

If I carried on collecting them , do I need to assume these are classed as savings? I’ve read the various DWP guides, it’s not listed as a form of savings, and to me it would be the same as personal possessions, antiques etc etc. Just don’t want to do anything wrong in the future,

Thank you.

huckster

If the coins show a currency value 10 pence, 50 pence etc and they are not solid silver, then the savings value would be the currency value.

If the coins you are buying are sterling silver, then the savings value would be the higher value of either the weight of the silver or any currency value shown.  it would depend on the silver weight, as to whether it was worth more than any currency value.

Crazydennie

I am currently on UC and also have a small coin collection that is mainly sterling silver limited editions have no intention of selling any of my coins.  I don't see it as having any value beyond the fact that I love coins. 
Are you saying I need to tot up the value and declare this to UC?

vacheron

This is a really interesting question. Having just looked it up, the dictionary seems to define it as the amount of money saved so I think it would have to be legal tender and based on face value. Any additional value would be due to the materials and rarity and that sum would not be guaranteed over time in the way the face value denomination would. 

huckster said:

If the coins you are buying are sterling silver, then the savings value would be the higher value of either the weight of the silver or any currency value shown.  it would depend on the silver weight, as to whether it was worth more than any currency value.

I have a wristwatch collection, some of which are precious metal, but I certainly wouldn't class the metal weight of the cases (and other jewelry) as "savings" so it seems strange that they are if I pressed them into the shape of a coin?

Switching to the rarity element: Imagine the scenario where someone with £20 to their name gets a Beatrix Potter 50p piece in their change worth 10K and immediately has to inform HMRC so that their benefits have to be stopped, they then spend it at the butchers round the corner and have to ring them back to have them re-started again! 

However, while I am not an expert, I would have thought that if you were to spend £10,000 on rare coins to get your savings under the £6K limit, this may certainly be considered as deliberate deprivation. 

huckster

The issue with  these special issue coins that can be used as a form of payment, is that they are savings, the same as any other coins. 
Where the coins are not legal tender, but have a value as they are solid silver or gold, they would be counted as savings.  The coins don't have any other purpose, but are simply a way of saving.  If you buy a watch, it may be made of silver/gold, but it has a purpose as an item that can be worn, so would not need to be disclosed.  But you cannot exchange money before or during a benefit claim, to buy an expensive watch or jewellery, simply to reduce savings, to take advantage of the benefit system.  

So the value of the coin collection would need to be disclosed to benefit service including DWP for UC and Council ( for Council tax/ Housing benefits purposes.   Failure to disclose savings can have serious consequences.

The issue with a rare coin such as a 50 pence with a printing error or few entered into circulation, is that the coin really only has an official value of 50 pence.  The sale value is only relevant to benefit services beyond the 50 pence, when the claimant sells the coin and then suddenly has say £10k in money.  Or an amount which takes the claimant over the savings thresholds.

vacheron

Thanks Huckster. Really interesting to know. 
I've learned another new thing today!

I guess you would have to declare things like Bitcoins and foreign currency too? 

huckster

Yes you would declare any savings such as bitcoins and foreign currency or swiss bank accounts, property assets which are not the claimants main residence.
It is always best to disclose any savings and let benefit services decide what should be considered or not.

Crazydennie

So just to be clear I only need to declare the face value of the coins?

Grumpelstiltskin

If you had something like this you would need to declare it's value not the coins face value.
2002 royal mint golden jubilee gold proof 13 coin set | eBay

HollyNW

Thanks for the replies.

I don’t think I’ll be able to afford that jubilee set anytime soon ha.

But it’s a collectors item, what makes this different to other collectibles, antiques, jewellery etc? Just the fact that it has gold or silver in it? Other collectible items are excluded, so what is it about collectible coins that differs?

Thanks for all the replies,  I do appreciate it.

huckster

It is because coins either in legal tender or as a form of bullion are savings.   They don't have another purpose.