Are Royal Mint Gold collectors coins classed as savings?

HollyNW

But bullion coins are totally different. As I said earlier, I know that bullion coins are counted as savings.

Collectable coins have the same purpose as any other collectable item. Whether it’s art, rare wines, stamps etc, they’re to be collected.

HollyNW

Collectable coins may be legal tender but the face value will be £5 and so on, whereas the price to buy it from the Royal Mint can be several hundreds of pounds,

huckster

Suggest that you declare the value of coins within overall savings, if you have savings in excess of the benefits threshold. 

It would be interesting what the precious metal value is compared to the £5 legal tender value.

kaMelo

Actually I don't think it's that straightforward as the definition of legal tender is not what most people would think it means.
I came across this article some time ago about a man buying Royal Mint commemorative coins to collect AmEx rewards;
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-3390519/I-buy-Royal-Mint-commemorative-coins-bulk-credit-card-gain-airmiles-cash-bank-s-refusing-accept-them.html
The Bank of England states the same;
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender

According to Royal Mint commemorative coins are legal tender but that does not make them cash, they can only be used as payment into court to satisfy a debt.  By that definition they are collectables and not savings as they are (almost) worthless.

huckster

@kaMelo interesting, but the coins have a value in terms of precious metal if they are silver or gold. Or the face value if they can be used as currency.

Agree that this is more complicated issue than it appears. I would never buy these Royal Mint commemorative base metal coins, as the actual value is nowhere near what Royal Mint sold them for.

It would be interesting if the OP clarified this with Royal Mint as to what their true value is that might  need to be declared as savings.

justwhat

mmm you have to be really careful, as you are classing the coins as savings. 
i have actually had a post pulled for suggesting  this sort of situation Could be used to get under the threshold. (if its something reasonable or something you have always done then its not  deprivation of saving)
The coins in this scenario could  be ANYTHING OF VALUE. 
You may have a collection of cars or clothes/shoes.  You could say with the coins its only the face .  However as someone has said it may not have any face value. Could just be the value of the precious metal. 
 
This is all teetering on the edge of asset/personnel possession   valuation for UC. 
 

kaMelo

huckster said:

@kaMelo interesting, but the coins have a value in terms of precious metal if they are silver or gold. Or the face value if they can be used as currency.

Agree that this is more complicated issue than it appears. I would never buy these Royal Mint commemorative base metal coins, as the actual value is nowhere near what Royal Mint sold them for.

It would be interesting if the OP clarified this with Royal Mint as to what their true value is that might  need to be declared as savings.

The more I read on this the more I think these commemorative coins cannot be classed as "money" as most people would understand it.
The Royal Mint specifically states on the definition of Legal Tender
"In practice this means that although the silver UK coins we produce in denominations of £5, £20, £50 and £100 are approved as legal tender, they have been designed as limited edition collectables or gifts and will not be entering general circulation. As such, UK shops and banks are unlikely to accept them."
https://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-guidelines/


It's important to understand that anyone can accept payment with commemorative coins if they choose to just like someone could also accept payment of two sheep or one cow or a pair of Nike Air Jordan trainers but no one has to accept your barter. Whilst the coins not in general circulation have a face value it bears no resemblance to it's true market value which will be determined by weight, materials and rarity just like any other product.

Unsurprisingly this clarification on the terms Legal Tender and banks being reminded not to accept them provoked a backlash from people who felt misled when purchasing them as, not unreasonably, most people would assume the coins were worth at least their face value. So much so it has relented from it's position of "no refunds" to one of "get in touch" as long as you are the original purchaser and the coins are still in their original packaging. If you are neither of those then they are not interested. If you cannot purchase anything with them, cannot deposit them in a bank nor sell them back to Royal Mint then as far as I'm concerned they are not money and do not need to be declared as savings.

The more important point to me though, whilst I don't believe they would need to be declared as savings is that, unless they are a rare beast, buying commemorative coins as an investment is a terrible idea.

TELLIT01

Many of these 'collector coins' are almost impossible to turn into cash i.e. use irrespective of their face value.  I discovered that when my brother died and found a collection he had amassed over the years.  The bank wouldn't take them and suggested the Post Office.  The Post Office would only take them in payment for certain goods and wouldn't exchange them for cash either.  Purely on that basis I think it would be difficult to justify them having to be declared as savings. 

That doesn't mean to say DWP or any other government department would agree with me.

huckster

It is a bit of a grey area really.  But as always, if in any doubt about what is counted as capital savings, it is always best to delcare the value or ask the question of any benefits agency.

danjackson2021

Gold and silver coins are just stuff

like your tv or DVD player 

As long as you take possession of the real things and hold them privately 

if you buy paper or digital illusions then they are investments that you have to declare