Are Royal Mint Gold collectors coins classed as savings?

noitsnotme

HollyNW said:

If we were just talking bullion coins it’s very straightforward, they’ve savings, they’re easily sellable and you tend to get back the price you paid for it as it’s bullion.

I just can’t find out anything concrete about these proof collectors coins. 

But this is what I’m trying to point out.  A solid silver proof coin is not really any different to a bullion coin when it comes to basic value.  If you have to declare the bullion coins as savings, then it would be logical that you also have to declare the proof coins as savings BUT only at their equivalent bullion value. (Caveat: I don’t know the actual answer from a benefits point of view).

Just because a coin is a proof version doesn’t give it any magical status.  It’s just a better condition and sometimes issued in less quantities than the standard bullion versions.

noitsnotme

HollyNW said:

I just want to know where in the DWP rulings does it state collectable items are savings. I’ve read through the entire document, I can’t see anything 

Bullion coins are collectible items too but you said they have to be declared as savings.

I think you’re getting confused by some of the terminology.  Why can’t you just ask the benefits office for clarification?

HollyNW

I take your point but under the freedom of information DWP only talked about bullion coins.

sure collectables have larger values than bullion, but this doesn’t mean they’re almost the same thing, they’re not, one is a collectable!  They are different things.

If you’re saying I only have to declare it’s bullion price then that’s ok. If you look at the Three Graces coins, the bullion price is maybe a 20th of the auction price. 

Sadly I dont have any of those either ha.

HollyNW

H thanks for the info about the silver forum, I’ve been on there for a month now. Good advice there.

As you know, some silver coins can be worth 10 times their bullion price, so it does matter what price you have to declare.

noitsnotme

HollyNW said:

I take your point but under the freedom of information DWP only talked about bullion coins.

sure collectables have larger values than bullion, but this doesn’t mean they’re almost the same thing, they’re not, one is a collectable!  They are different things.

If you’re saying I only have to declare it’s bullion price then that’s ok. If you look at the Three Graves coins, the bullion price is maybe a 20th of the auction price. 

Sadly I do t have any of those either ha.

Bullion coins are collectible too!!!!  For all intents and purposes proof coins are just a nicer bullion coin.  They don’t become an entirely different type of product just because they’re shinier and cost more in the first place!

I don’t know how the benefits office see it, ask them.  I’m out as this is just going round in circles!

HollyNW

Bullion coins are collectable.

but bullion coins are legally different from other collectable coins that I’m referring to, it doesn’t matter if you think they’re similar, there is a legal definition and the proof uncirculated are NOT bullion coins.

noitsnotme

HollyNW said:

Bullion coins are collectable.

but bullion coins are legally different from other collectable coins that I’m referring to, it doesn’t matter if you think they’re similar, there is a legal definition and the proof uncirculated are NOT bullion coins.

Can you point to the legislation that covers this legal definition?

You can buy, for example, a silver Britannia in both bullion and proof versions.  What are the legal differences between the two?

A beaten and scratched up proof coin is still a proof coin but is unlikely to fetch more than bullion price.

noitsnotme

HollyNW said:

Bullion coins are collectable.

but bullion coins are legally different from other collectable coins that I’m referring to, it doesn’t matter if you think they’re similar, there is a legal definition and the proof uncirculated are NOT bullion coins.

Tell you what - post this over on the Silver Forum and see what the responses are.  There are far more knowledgeable people than me over there.  Even the owner of Chards is a member and posts regularly over there and will know everything there is to know about the legalities.

HollyNW

It doesn’t let me post links but if you google DWP bullion coins, the top hit for me is a freedom if o formation request on WhatDoTheyKnow website.

HollyNW

This was their ruling…
Dear Mr Caruso, 
 
Thank you for your Freedom of Information request of 8 November 2016. You asked:  
 
Bullion coins are coins struck from precious metals, typically gold or silver, minted by official 
agencies (e.g. the Royal Mint) for investment purposes. Although they are legal tender in their 
country of origin, they are usually  kept as a store of value or an investment, rather than used 
in day-to-day commerce. 
 
In a previous  Freedom of Information request (Charles Bell 11 December 2013) the DWP 
stated that: 
 
"By ‘capital’ we mean savings and capital assets, for example money held in a bank or building 
society account, stocks and shares and property rather than personal possessions which 
cannot be readily valued. As items such as medals and furniture are personal possessions 
they are not treated as capital and are disregarded when calculating benefit entitlement. " 
 
When applying for Income-based Jobseekers' Allowance online, the claimant is asked to 
declare all savings and investments, with the following formulation: