Are Royal Mint Gold collectors coins classed as savings?

MovingForwards

Here's the FOI link:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/are_bullion_coins_regarded_as_sa

HollyNW

And their reply..

All capital, savings and investments must be declared on the claim form when making a claim 
for Jobseeker’s Allowance, this includes bullion coins. The most appropriate category to 
declare this under is ‘Other savings’.  
 
It is for the Decision Maker to decide whether bullion coins are capital or whether they can be 
disregarded. In deciding what their value is a Decision Maker will reference publically available 
information as to their current market value.  
 
Volume 5, chapter 29, paragraph 29020 gives guidance on what capital is. The Decision 
Maker’s Guide is in the public domain and can be found on Gov.uk: 

HollyNW

Reading that again, they don’t say it is classed as capital, rather that you declare it on other saving and a decision maker will decide. Which really doesn’t answer anything if you want to know before buying coins, whether they are classed as savings.

I just missed out on buying a three graces coin a few months ago. They are selling for over 10 times their value. Just confusing as whether that would push you over the savings limit, meaning you’d be forced to sell your coin.

noitsnotme

HollyNW said:

It doesn’t let me post links but if you google DWP bullion coins, the top hit for me is a freedom if o formation request on WhatDoTheyKnow website.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/369801/response/900007/attach/3/WDTK%204240.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

That says absolutely nothing about any legal differences between bullion and proof coins.  It says nothing about any legal definitions of bullion or proof coins either.

You appear to be seeing what you want to see and conflating several different points.  I’m not stating what I think the benefits office point of view is because I don’t know.  I’m asking you to point out the supposed law that defines the legal differences between bullion and proof coins.  Like I said, post on the Silver Forum and see what they say.

Anyone could legally sell a proof coin as bullion.  They would be stupid but it wouldn’t be illegal.

HollyNW

The question was specifically about bullion coins. I am not seeing what I want to see, you seem to be taking a specific question about a specific item and applying it to other coins because you think they look similar or whatever you said.

Again, this was the question.. Bullion coins are coins struck from precious metals, typically gold or silver, minted by official 
agencies (e.g. the Royal Mint) for investment purposes. Although they are legal tender in their 
country of origin, they are usually  kept as a store of value or an investment, rather than used 
in day-to-day commerce. 

You can’t get any clearer! They are asking about bullion coins, and whatever you opinion, U circulated Proof coins ARE different to bullion coins, that’s why there are two categories. Because they’re different.

noitsnotme

HollyNW said:

The question was specifically about bullion coins. I am not seeing what I want to see, you seem to be taking a specific question about a specific item and applying it to other coins because you think they look similar or whatever you said.

Again, this was the question.. Bullion coins are coins struck from precious metals, typically gold or silver, minted by official 
agencies (e.g. the Royal Mint) for investment purposes. Although they are legal tender in their 
country of origin, they are usually  kept as a store of value or an investment, rather than used 
in day-to-day commerce. 

And?  What does that prove?  Proof coins also fit that description.  I asked you to provide proof of the law that defines the legal difference between bullion and proof coins and you so far have not been able to do so.

If you are so sure, why not post on the Silver Forum.  Tag the user LawrenceChard in your post.  He’s the owner of Chards and will be able to give you a definitive answer I’m sure.

HollyNW

There are countless websites that state the difference between bullion and proof collectors coins.,

again, I cannot post links, but I’m sure you can read these.

here’s is one from one of the biggest producers of coins..

“ Bullion coins are for investing. Proof coins are for collecting.”

This definition is repeated over and over. If you do not know the difference between bullion and proof coins, then maybe read up a little.

HollyNW

The Royal Mint website tells you what a proof coin is. It is not a bullion coin, they are made using different methods with different workmanship quality, skills etc and come in commemorative packs.

if you don’t know the difference I really  can’t help you any further.

noitsnotme

HollyNW said:

There are countless websites that state the difference between bullion and proof collectors coins.,

again, I cannot post links, but I’m sure you can read these.

here’s is one from one of the biggest producers of coins..

“ Bullion coins are for investing. Proof coins are for collecting.”

That is not law.  That’s someone’s opinion.  Proof coins are also for investing and bullion coins are also for collecting -  go and ask all the silver collectors!!!  (but you won’t).  There are countless websites out there that state UFOs and ghosts are real too, doesn’t mean they are 🤷‍♂️

I’m still interested to see where you saw this law you mentioned.

HollyNW

I don’t know how many links you need, must google the difference.

Here is the definition by the Royal Mint, of course you seem to know different , but hey..

”

What are Proof coins?

Proof coins are the highest quality commemorative coins. Their sharpness, detail and finish are unrivalled, making them perfect for collectors looking for highest levels of craftsmanship and detail.

The dies used to strike Proof coins are hand-finished to ensure that all imperfections are removed. Blanks are fed into the coin press by hand before being struck up to six times, at a lower speed and with less pressure than other finishes, to preserve the finer details of the design.

After striking, each coin is inspected for imperfections. The dies are cleaned with air between each coin to ensure that no marks or imperfections are caused during striking.

As a result of this extra care and attention, no more than 50 Proof coins can be struck within an hour. Proof dies are also regularly reworked to maintain the quality of the finish. Each Proof die may only strike a few hundred coins before it has to be repolished.”

That is NOT a bullion coin. Literally no one apart from you would claim bullion coins are the same as proof coins.

You say this is just their ‘opinion’. This is the Royal Mint. It’s more valid than your opinion, with the greatest of respect.