REMOVED THIS THREAD

peteyh

REMOVED THIS THREAD

steampowered

You might be liable to pay a fee to BOTH agent A and agent B.

I can't read the contract you signed with Agent A from here. However, estate agent contracts often say that you will be required to pay the fee if the property is brought by any buyer who was introduced to the property while it was listed with them.

Even though you have not signed anything with Agent B, you do have a legal contract with Agent B - since you have allowed them to proceed with taking photos and starting marketing. It is entirely possible that the law will see that as you agreeing to Agent B's T&Cs despite not signing anything.

As it sounds like the neighbour found out about the property through Agent B and was introduced to you by Agent B, I suspect that Agent B will have the neighbour on their list of buyers. Agent B will probably be expecting a fee if you sell to them.

Estate agents are able to find out when you sold and who you sold to through land registry records. It's very common for agents to check land registry records for their old properties. If you sell to someone who is on their records as making an enquiry about the property, there is a very high chance that they would ask you to pay their fee. 

I suggest you read the T&Cs you signed with Agent A - top to bottom. I suggest you ask Agent B for a copy of their T&Cs - and read from top to bottom.

eddddy

The abysmal photographs, poor marketing etc won't really be relevant.

Not signing the contract is irrelevant - it sounds like you entered into a binding legal contract, because you agreed to photos being taken, etc.

Listing with an online agent won't make any difference to anything - you don't need to do that.

The key questions are:

• Did either of the agents introduce the buyer? (See below) If one of them introduced the buyer, you have to pay that EA a fee

• Are your estate agents contracts "Sole Selling Rights" or similar. If they're "Sole Selling Rights", you have to pay the EA's fee, even if you introduce the buyer yourself, during the contract period.

The Property Ombudsman defines an 'introduction' as follows:

18j Effective Introduction. An effective introduction must evidence that the agent carried out an act that initiated the buyer’s reaction to the property. As such, there is a need for a defined transaction event to occur. This can be most clearly evidenced by an agent carrying out a viewing.

Link:https://www.tpos.co.uk/images/Codes_2019_a5/TPOE27-8_Code_of_Practice_for_Residential_Estate_Agents_A5_-_Effective_1_June_2019.pdf

davilown

eddddy said:

The abysmal photographs, poor marketing etc won't really be relevant.

Not signing the contract is irrelevant - it sounds like you entered into a binding legal contract, because you agreed to photos being taken, etc.

Listing with an online agent won't make any difference to anything - you don't need to do that.

The key questions are:

• Did either of the agents introduce the buyer? (See below) If one of them introduced the buyer, you have to pay that EA a fee

• Are your estate agents contracts "Sole Selling Rights" or similar. If they're "Sole Selling Rights", you have to pay the EA's fee, even if you introduce the buyer yourself, during the contract period.

The Property Ombudsman defines an 'introduction' as follows:

18j Effective Introduction. An effective introduction must evidence that the agent carried out an act that initiated the buyer’s reaction to the property. As such, there is a need for a defined transaction event to occur. This can be most clearly evidenced by an agent carrying out a viewing.

Link:https://www.tpos.co.uk/images/Codes_2019_a5/TPOE27-8_Code_of_Practice_for_Residential_Estate_Agents_A5_-_Effective_1_June_2019.pdf

TPO also states the following:

“Merely handing property particulars to a prospective buyer, or conducting a viewing where the viewer expressed no interest in the property and did not, at that time, make an offer, will not be considered by the Ombudsman sufficient to establish that the agent’s actions resulted in the sale of the property.

 “However, if the agent can provide detailed progress notes showing that the potential buyer was interested in the property and wanted to go ahead but was unable at the time, for whatever reason, but the agent kept in contact, trying to establish the sale, then it is likely that the Ombudsman may conclude that the agent was the effective introducer, even if that buyer subsequently made an offer through another agent.”

Stubod

..both agents have done work and marketed your property, you have (potentially) sold it, I would therefore assume you will be liable to pay both agents their respective fees. (Contracts don't necessarily have to be "in writing", you can have a verbal contract particularly as agent B has obviously done some work).

Greatgimp

Get agent A to talk to Agent B and see if they would make an agreement to split. Otherwise, cancel the sale, and start again but without accepting anybody who's shown interest up to now. Seek a brand new agent?

pinkshoes

Did you put it in writing that agent B were NOT to market your property until <date> as this was when your contract with Agent A ended? 

If so... then they should not have been giving any details to potential buyers before this date.

Also... it sounds to me like this neighbour became aware of the sale when it was advertised with agent A, so agent A would therefore be owed the fee.


Finally... as agent B was a second agent, they should have asked this buyer if they had enquired about the property with agent A. Agent A  should have supplied a list of people they had introduced.

I'm thinking Agent A is due a fee, but unless you have it in writing that B were not to market the property yet then you might also have to pay B.

pinkshoes

Did you put it in writing that agent B were NOT to market your property until <date> as this was when your contract with Agent A ended? 

If so... then they should not have been giving any details to potential buyers before this date.

Also... it sounds to me like this neighbour became aware of the sale when it was advertised with agent A, so agent A would therefore be owed the fee.


Finally... as agent B was a second agent, they should have asked this buyer if they had enquired about the property with agent A. Agent A  should have supplied a list of people they had introduced.

I'm thinking Agent A is due a fee, but unless you have it in writing that B were not to market the property yet then you might also have to pay B.

peteyh

1. Agent B: So is the suggestion, having a third party photographer enter my home, take pics, and them provide me a sub standard marketing sheet = Binding contract? Surely you need sign something. Until we agree a fee ie their commission etc I've agreed no contract? All we had agreed was verbally I did not seek pay any marketing fees - Where is the binding contract if you have not agreed all the particulars such as fees, how long they can market etc.
2. Agent B: Agent B Advised me that Agent A required 4 weeks notice before i could switch. With that in mind i advised Agent B when i gave notice and as such they should be aware not to market. They came to me with a request to view from couple yet to marktet their property within that timescale. I refused. Then 1 week later attempted to have couple view my property having sold theirs, I once again refused and stated I had signed no contract.
3. Agent B. have sold the couple in questions property - the couple in question, advised Agent B they wanted my property and have since November listing by Agent A. And may well remove theirs from market if mine is not available. Agent B risk losing said Sale of their property, would they risk that over Sale of mine.
4. I was only going to list with Free online Agent to make process look more "legal" as in the approach by interesrted couple.
5. Unsure how it can be said  on one hand "It has to be in writing " to not market property, this im liable , yet "It doesnt have to be in writing" to be in a binding contract - one rule for one one for the other.
6. SOLE AGENCY on both, so I can find my own buyer. If a buyer has yet to view or be named to be, how can they be proven as being "introduced" - Agent A. had an approach from couple in question nothing more, I see no grounds on any argument above for commission. - Agent B. has had numerous conversations with said couple though. Hence am in contract.

Really appreciate all the above feedback .

peteyh

*Hence AM i in contract with Agent B for me is the key question.

peteyh

I've since spoken to said couple who have advised me AGENT B. (expected to selling my property) having sold theirs, that I would accept offers 25k below listed price and to take a chance offering low. (to tempt them to market their property and get mine at a bargain) gaining AGENT B. two sales. Seems to be a huge conflict of interest and misrepresentation/marketing not working on MY behalf. As my seller they should have acted for me to get the best possible price, they in were clearly acter for the Buyer (who just happens to be their client for a seperate sale)

We have since verbally agreed almost full asking price.