REMOVED THIS THREAD

peteyh

pinkshoes said:

Did you put it in writing that agent B were NOT to market your property until <date> as this was when your contract with Agent A ended? 

If so... then they should not have been giving any details to potential buyers before this date.

Also... it sounds to me like this neighbour became aware of the sale when it was advertised with agent A, so agent A would therefore be owed the fee.


Finally... as agent B was a second agent, they should have asked this buyer if they had enquired about the property with agent A. Agent A  should have supplied a list of people they had introduced.

I'm thinking Agent A is due a fee, but unless you have it in writing that B were not to market the property yet then you might also have to pay B.

Not in writing with specific dates - but THEY made me aware of the notice period. So agreed they couldnt market before that, merely take pics and ready to market. The house has not been officially marketed, they have merely sent me markerting details to be approved along with a contract to sign - both of which ive nor refused at this point to be clear on that. Anythijng they have done would have been "behind the scenes" AND without a written contract.

Agent A have been given notice. They did not introuduce the couple.
- The couple called AGENT A. when they had no ability to buy (hadnt markerted their property) agent told them they couldnt view due to COVID
- They viewed another property in FEB20 through agent A. still whilst in no position to buy. Agent mentioned my property, but nothing more said about a viewing.
I cant see that is an introduction in any form?

eddddy

peteyh said:

1. Agent B: So is the suggestion, having a third party photographer enter my home, take pics, and them provide me a sub standard marketing sheet = Binding contract? Surely you need sign something. Until we agree a fee ie their commission etc I've agreed no contract? All we had agreed was verbally I did not seek pay any marketing fees - Where is the binding contract if you have not agreed all the particulars such as fees, how long they can market etc.
.

You say you agreed verbally - therefore you have a contract.
You don't have to sign anything to have a contract.

Are you really saying that the EA didn't tell you their fee, their contract length, etc before you verbally agreed?

Typically, what happens is...

• The EA gives you a copy of their contract terms, including the fee they charge, the contract period, etc.
• Then the EA says something like "Shall we go ahead and market the property?"
• You say "Yes"
• (If you hadn't said yes - presumably you would have turned away the photographer who came round.)

i.e. You've been given the contract terms and you've agreed to them. So you now have a binding legal contract between you and the EA.

If you wanted to negotiate the fee, the contract term or anything else - you have to do that before saying "Yes".

Or did things happen differently in your case?

Robbo66

Have a read here
https://propertyindustryeye.com/why-court-decided-that-sellers-did-not-have-to-pay-commission-to-first-agent/#:~:text=Palmer Snell were claiming a total of £9,580 including court fees.&amp;text=The case had its roots,viewings and carried out 11.

Based on what you have said neither is entitled to a fee however it would depend on Agents A contract and whether or not it is a sole selling rights agreement or a sole agency.

peteyh

eddddy said:

peteyh said:

1. Agent B: So is the suggestion, having a third party photographer enter my home, take pics, and them provide me a sub standard marketing sheet = Binding contract? Surely you need sign something. Until we agree a fee ie their commission etc I've agreed no contract? All we had agreed was verbally I did not seek pay any marketing fees - Where is the binding contract if you have not agreed all the particulars such as fees, how long they can market etc.
.

You say you agreed verbally - therefore you have a contract.
You don't have to sign anything to have a contract.

Are you really saying that the EA didn't tell you their fee, their contract length, etc before you verbally agreed?

Typically, what happens is...

• The EA gives you a copy of their contract terms, including the fee they charge, the contract period, etc.
• Then the EA says something like "Shall we go ahead and market the property?"
• You say "Yes"
• (If you hadn't said yes - presumably you would have turned away the photographer who came round.)

i.e. You've been given the contract terms and you've agreed to them. So you now have a binding legal contract between you and the EA.

If you wanted to negotiate the fee, the contract term or anything else - you have to do that before saying "Yes".

Or did things happen differently in your case?

Why do EA's request you to sign a contract if simply a verbal conversation as regards engaging them to sell is enough?
Yes im saying we had not agreed any finer details of the sale, Ie House price, Term of contract, commission fee.
So what verbal contract have I agreed to. The photographer works for the EA not myself, inviting someone onto my property to take images is not falling into a binding contract if the contract details had not been verbally or written agreed. The onus is not on me to turn away a photographer, the onus on me is not to sign a contract if not deemed suitable.

EDDDY are you an estate agent or have connections - genuine question. Your suggestions are The onus seems to be entirely ont he client and not the EA for every action.

appreciate feedback though

peteyh

Robbo66 said:

Have a read here
https://propertyindustryeye.com/why-court-decided-that-sellers-did-not-have-to-pay-commission-to-first-agent/#:~:text=Palmer Snell were claiming a total of £9,580 including court fees.&amp;text=The case had its roots,viewings and carried out 11.

Based on what you have said neither is entitled to a fee however it would depend on Agents A contract and whether or not it is a sole selling rights agreement or a sole agency.

Great Articel - Agent A have done zero to sell to this couple by way of "introduction" on that basis.  No viewings, no on going dealings with the couple.

It comes down to if im in a contract with Agent B. who have good cause to say they introduced or attempted too the propsed couple i now seek to deal with direct.

eddddy

peteyh said:

Why do EA's request you to sign a contract if simply a verbal conversation as regards engaging them to sell is enough?

Yes im saying we had not agreed any finer details of the sale, Ie House price, Term of contract, commission fee.
So what verbal contract have I agreed to. The photographer works for the EA not myself, inviting someone onto my property to take images is not falling into a binding contract if the contract details had not been verbally or written agreed. The onus is not on me to turn away a photographer, the onus on me is not to sign a contract if not deemed suitable.

EDDDY are you an estate agent or have connections - genuine question. Your suggestions are The onus seems to be entirely ont he client and not the EA for every action.

appreciate feedback though

It seems like you're avoiding the key questions:

• Did the EA give you a written copy of their contract terms?
• Did the EA give you details of their fee in writing?
• Did the EA give you details of the minimum contract length in writing?

• Did you tell the EA to start marketing your property?

I'm not an EA. I think that some EAs are despicable (but some are ok). That's why I'm trying to help you understand contract law, how EA's contracts work, and highligh some of the 'tricks' EAs play.


EAs will often sue sellers in court, if they believe that the seller owes them a fee, so you need to understand contract law - so that you can offer a solid defence.

Although it's often better to complain to the Property Ombudsman, before the EA starts legal proceedings. They tend to be friendlier towards the consumer.

Irishpearce26

A word of warning 'Free Agent' is an EA were the buyer pays the EA fees, are your buyers aware? If not i would have a guess that they would pull out.

Robbo66

peteyh said:

Robbo66 said:

Have a read here
https://propertyindustryeye.com/why-court-decided-that-sellers-did-not-have-to-pay-commission-to-first-agent/#:~:text=Palmer Snell were claiming a total of £9,580 including court fees.&amp;text=The case had its roots,viewings and carried out 11.

Based on what you have said neither is entitled to a fee however it would depend on Agents A contract and whether or not it is a sole selling rights agreement or a sole agency.

Great Articel - Agent A have done zero to sell to this couple by way of "introduction" on that basis.  No viewings, no on going dealings with the couple.

It comes down to if im in a contract with Agent B. who have good cause to say they introduced or attempted too the propsed couple i now seek to deal with direct.

I'm still doubtful if you would owe them a fee if they weren't instrumental in making the deal happen. The only exception that contradicts the ruling highlighted in the article would be if the agents have sole selling rights or sole agency agreements

peteyh

eddddy said:

peteyh said:

Why do EA's request you to sign a contract if simply a verbal conversation as regards engaging them to sell is enough?

Yes im saying we had not agreed any finer details of the sale, Ie House price, Term of contract, commission fee.
So what verbal contract have I agreed to. The photographer works for the EA not myself, inviting someone onto my property to take images is not falling into a binding contract if the contract details had not been verbally or written agreed. The onus is not on me to turn away a photographer, the onus on me is not to sign a contract if not deemed suitable.

EDDDY are you an estate agent or have connections - genuine question. Your suggestions are The onus seems to be entirely ont he client and not the EA for every action.

appreciate feedback though

It seems like you're avoiding the key questions:

• Did the EA give you a written copy of their contract terms?
• Did the EA give you details of their fee in writing?
• Did the EA give you details of the minimum contract length in writing?

• Did you tell the EA to start marketing your property?

I'm not an EA. I think that some EAs are despicable (but some are ok). That's why I'm trying to help you understand contract law, how EA's contracts work, and highligh some of the 'tricks' EAs play.


EAs will often sue sellers in court, if they believe that the seller owes them a fee, so you need to understand contract law - so that you can offer a solid defence.

Although it's often better to complain to the Property Ombudsman, before the EA starts legal proceedings. They tend to be friendlier towards the consumer.

Thats great EDDDY just wanted to see i was getting balanced opinion - all comments are appreciated.

Not avoiding answers, just unsure you beleive the timeline here.
1. I only recieved their contract terms this week with the marketing pamphlet for my house for me to sign. The first time I'd received. 
2. NO agreed fee in writing - Until this week (UNSIGNED) along with contract terms, post pictures, post their attempted market, not agreed too and withink KNOWN overlap with Agent. A which they knew about.
3. NO agreed minimum contract in writing (UNSIGNED) until this week  along with contract terms, post pictures, post their attempted market, not agreed too and withink KNOWN overlap with Agent. A which they knew about.
4. NO I didnt request they market it, indeed I ASKED how i need confrm closure with Agent A. as id only served notice and wished to take advice how to seamlessly ensure i was no longer in contract. I was only aware of them marketing when they suggested someone view my property, which I refused as they were in no position to purchase.

Added to this they sneakily advised the intended buyer that I would accept to take offers 25k under my listing price to get them to sell their property to insenticise them to sell through them and put offer in. Certainly not acting on my behalf 

peteyh

Irishpearce26 said:

A word of warning 'Free Agent' is an EA were the buyer pays the EA fees, are your buyers aware? If not i would have a guess that they would pull out.

STRIKE dont charge a buyers fee it seems... I clarified. But thankyou, some certainly do.