CCJ added on Nov 2020 that i dont recognise

[Deleted User]

OP - simple question, yes or no. Was the car registered (as in on the RK form) to the location your family lived in? Was your driving licence registered there?

On related point, at risk of you ignoring the above again, I admit, how do you know your partner didn't drive 50 miles? How are you going to prove cloned plates? People who clone plates don't do it to get out of a single parking ticket and then stop using them

taztheman

Sorry for responding late, but for some reason this thread of mine was closed for discussion since 6th of June and i had to email the forum admin to unblock it. So here it goes.
Deleted_User said:

OP - simple question, yes or no. Was the car registered (as in on the RK form) to the location your family lived in? Was your driving licence registered there?

Yes the car and the licence were both registered on the same address (where i and my family lived). 
 Deleted_User said:

On related point, at risk of you ignoring the above again, I admit, how do you know your partner didn't drive 50 miles? How are you going to prove cloned plates? People who clone plates don't do it to get out of a single parking ticket and then stop using them

I know because she has no confidence in driving on motorways. She would only use the car for school and grocery runs (all within a 3 miles radius ). There is absolutely no way that this car was at the alleged location. I am not saying that this necessarily is a clone plate situation, i just cant think of any other possible way.

taztheman

Deleted_User said:

The problem is that while the OP was out of the country, their family wasn't - they were 3 months when OP was in the Middle East but family were at the address yet somehow "knows" there was no letter received which is obviously not possible as it could have been and thrown away as junk. Now OP is bringing in this 50 mile away thing, again "knowing" his partner couldn't possibly have driven there and is trying to bring in the cloned plates stuff. Yes the CCJ was issued after they left but the paperwork that led up to that wasn't, so the CCJ is perfectly legitimate - a mail forward to their relatives or friends would have covered that.

Why is it so hard to believe that there were no PCNs issued. I will re iterate the timelines again
* mid June 2019 i alone leave the UK, with wife and kids present in the UK at RK address
* November 2019 i return to pick up family and wrap up any business (bills, rents, closing phone/broadband accounts, council tax etc.)
* First week of December 2019, all of us leave the UK (end of tenancy). 
While i was away, all the mail that was sent under my name kept aside for me to look at when i would come home in November 2019. It is very, very unlikely that i would have discarded all the PCN letters/notification (you may appreciate if the offence date was 18/08, by November end there would have been at least two if not more letters from the Civil enforcement Ltd. to pay up). Not sure how else i can prove that there was no PCN issued in the said timeframe.

ThisnotThat

taztheman said:

Deleted_User said:

The problem is that while the OP was out of the country, their family wasn't - they were 3 months when OP was in the Middle East but family were at the address yet somehow "knows" there was no letter received which is obviously not possible as it could have been and thrown away as junk. Now OP is bringing in this 50 mile away thing, again "knowing" his partner couldn't possibly have driven there and is trying to bring in the cloned plates stuff. Yes the CCJ was issued after they left but the paperwork that led up to that wasn't, so the CCJ is perfectly legitimate - a mail forward to their relatives or friends would have covered that.

Why is it so hard to believe that there were no PCNs issued. I will re iterate the timelines again
* mid June 2019 i alone leave the UK, with wife and kids present in the UK at RK address
* November 2019 i return to pick up family and wrap up any business (bills, rents, closing phone/broadband accounts, council tax etc.)
* First week of December 2019, all of us leave the UK (end of tenancy). 
While i was away, all the mail that was sent under my name kept aside for me to look at when i would come home in November 2019. It is very, very unlikely that i would have discarded all the PCN letters/notification (you may appreciate if the offence date was 18/08, by November end there would have been at least two if not more letters from the Civil enforcement Ltd. to pay up). Not sure how else i can prove that there was no PCN issued in the said timeframe.

You can't prove it wasn't sent, but if they have a record of it being sent that's the end of it.

I'm not sure why you bothered getting this thread unlocked.  Regardless of whether or not you can make an argument it was never received, until you find out the specifics of the claim you have no defence.  Until that happens we're just going to go round in circles with lots of pointless "what if's."

[Deleted User]

taztheman said:

Deleted_User said:

The problem is that while the OP was out of the country, their family wasn't - they were 3 months when OP was in the Middle East but family were at the address yet somehow "knows" there was no letter received which is obviously not possible as it could have been and thrown away as junk. Now OP is bringing in this 50 mile away thing, again "knowing" his partner couldn't possibly have driven there and is trying to bring in the cloned plates stuff. Yes the CCJ was issued after they left but the paperwork that led up to that wasn't, so the CCJ is perfectly legitimate - a mail forward to their relatives or friends would have covered that.

Why is it so hard to believe that there were no PCNs issued. I will re iterate the timelines again
* mid June 2019 i alone leave the UK, with wife and kids present in the UK at RK address
* November 2019 i return to pick up family and wrap up any business (bills, rents, closing phone/broadband accounts, council tax etc.)
* First week of December 2019, all of us leave the UK (end of tenancy). 
While i was away, all the mail that was sent under my name kept aside for me to look at when i would come home in November 2019. It is very, very unlikely that i would have discarded all the PCN letters/notification (you may appreciate if the offence date was 18/08, by November end there would have been at least two if not more letters from the Civil enforcement Ltd. to pay up). Not sure how else i can prove that there was no PCN issued in the said timeframe.

The PCN is issued, as I said, a letter is deemed delivered 2 days after posting if sent first class. If they have a copy of the letter, it was delivered, end of story (at least in terms of courts, you have no way to prove you didn't get it). You can't prove you didn't get it, that's the point, you did get it (in a legal sense). Parking firms don't wait 3 months to send letters, it'll be done in the first couple of weeks after they got the RK address. You also cannot prove your wife didn't drive there (or perhaps someone else drove the car for her?) or perhaps even the post code of the ticket is wrong (have you seen the ticket / photos of it on the car? could it possibly be the post code is of the firm issuing it?). Any which way you can pay a lot, or live with it until it disappears from your record, you need to stop wasting time on trying to prove that you didn't get the letter or that the car couldn't have been there.

taztheman

ThisnotThat said:

You can't prove it wasn't sent, but if they have a record of it being sent that's the end of it.

I'm not sure why you bothered getting this thread unlocked.  Regardless of whether or not you can make an argument it was never received, until you find out the specifics of the claim you have no defence.  Until that happens we're just going to go round in circles with lots of pointless "what if's."

I don't believe i need to give you a reason as to why i unlocked the post, but if i was to, i would be saying that there are people on this thread according to whom leaving a country on permanent basis may be a good enough reason for set aside. This is the aspect i need to explore and understand further.

taztheman

Deleted_User said:

 you need to stop wasting time on trying to prove that you didn't get the letter or that the car couldn't have been there.

Not trying to prove that i didn't get the letter, i understand it is hard to prove. What i am trying to prove is that there is no way that my car was on the alleged location  (we don't have any family or friends that we would visit in the alleged city so why would i believe for this to be even possible). Which is why i am trying to contact civil enforcement ltd for them to supply any evidence, i.e. a photo of the car in the alleged location.

brianposter

To obtain the relevant evidence you send a SAR (subject access request) to the car parking company.

Assuming that the evidence will support your assertions I cannot see why you would need to attend court to overturn the CCJ.

taztheman

brianposter said:

To obtain the relevant evidence you send a SAR (subject access request) to the car parking company.

Assuming that the evidence will support your assertions I cannot see why you would need to attend court to overturn the CCJ.

thanks brianposter
I see there is an email address on the forum to request SAR from CEL. Would i need a UK postal address for SAR documents?  Is this info something that they can email instead? 

brianposter

I believe the SAR can be done by email - the first problem may be ID as I seem to remember you are advised not to send a copy of your passport and you may not have utility bills or a copy of your V5C.

There is a lot more advice on the parking forum - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking