CCJ added on Nov 2020 that i dont recognise

ThisnotThat

taztheman said:

Assuming costs arent as issue, whats the best way forward, challenge the PCN or challenge the CCJ? Can i ask for evidence of PCN from the enforcement company without this having any impact on court proceeding should i take the CCj challenge route?

Challenging the PCN wouldn't make the blindest bit of difference to the CCJ.  You'd still need to get it set aside.

taztheman

sourcrates said:

The court papers would go to the last known address of the debtor, the address the car was registered at.

For a set aside to be successful, you must satisfy two points.

Point one - you must have good reason why you did not respond to the court papers.
Point two - you must have a defence with a reasonable chance of success.

A defence to this would be, it was not my car, there were no signs, the ticket was incorrectly issued, etc etc, you get the idea.

Not being in receipt of the court papers alone does not constitute a defence to this.

The pcn offence date was 18/08/19. Surely the court letters wouldn't have arrived before 06/12/19 (date we vacated property) as the enforcement comoamy would have issued reminders ( which we obviously also dont remember receiving).
Also the car was sold around mid-November 2019. 
This is my only defence offcourse which can easily be proven (flight tickets,  passport entrance stamps). Also we are fairly confident that no PCN was not delivered in the three months post offence date, after which we no longer were in the UK.

ThisnotThat

taztheman said:

sourcrates said:

The court papers would go to the last known address of the debtor, the address the car was registered at.

For a set aside to be successful, you must satisfy two points.

Point one - you must have good reason why you did not respond to the court papers.
Point two - you must have a defence with a reasonable chance of success.

A defence to this would be, it was not my car, there were no signs, the ticket was incorrectly issued, etc etc, you get the idea.

Not being in receipt of the court papers alone does not constitute a defence to this.

The pcn offence date was 18/08/19. Surely the court letters wouldn't have arrived before 06/12/19 (date we vacated property) as the enforcement comoamy would have issued reminders ( which we obviously also dont remember receiving).
Also the car was sold around mid-November 2019. 
This is my only defence offcourse which can easily be proven (flight tickets,  passport entrance stamps). Also we are fairly confident that no PCN was not delivered in the three months post offence date, after which we no longer were in the UK.

If the papers were sent to your last known address, that is all that is needed.  You not living there anymore isn't really relevant, otherwise all people would need to do to avoid being taken to court is to move address.

You also need a defence against the debt itself, which you don't have yet as you don't know what it relates to.

taztheman

ThisnotThat said:

taztheman said:

sourcrates said:

The court papers would go to the last known address of the debtor, the address the car was registered at.

For a set aside to be successful, you must satisfy two points.

Point one - you must have good reason why you did not respond to the court papers.
Point two - you must have a defence with a reasonable chance of success.

A defence to this would be, it was not my car, there were no signs, the ticket was incorrectly issued, etc etc, you get the idea.

Not being in receipt of the court papers alone does not constitute a defence to this.

The pcn offence date was 18/08/19. Surely the court letters wouldn't have arrived before 06/12/19 (date we vacated property) as the enforcement comoamy would have issued reminders ( which we obviously also dont remember receiving).
Also the car was sold around mid-November 2019. 
This is my only defence offcourse which can easily be proven (flight tickets,  passport entrance stamps). Also we are fairly confident that no PCN was not delivered in the three months post offence date, after which we no longer were in the UK.

If the papers were sent to your last known address, that is all that is needed.  You not living there anymore isn't really relevant, otherwise all people would need to do to avoid being taken to court is to move address.

You also need a defence against the debt itself, which you don't have yet as you don't know what it relates to.

So, not having received the PCN and court papers during the tenancy period is not a defence at all. Seems unfair, if that is indeed how it is. 

ThisnotThat

taztheman said:

ThisnotThat said:

taztheman said:

sourcrates said:

The court papers would go to the last known address of the debtor, the address the car was registered at.

For a set aside to be successful, you must satisfy two points.

Point one - you must have good reason why you did not respond to the court papers.
Point two - you must have a defence with a reasonable chance of success.

A defence to this would be, it was not my car, there were no signs, the ticket was incorrectly issued, etc etc, you get the idea.

Not being in receipt of the court papers alone does not constitute a defence to this.

The pcn offence date was 18/08/19. Surely the court letters wouldn't have arrived before 06/12/19 (date we vacated property) as the enforcement comoamy would have issued reminders ( which we obviously also dont remember receiving).
Also the car was sold around mid-November 2019. 
This is my only defence offcourse which can easily be proven (flight tickets,  passport entrance stamps). Also we are fairly confident that no PCN was not delivered in the three months post offence date, after which we no longer were in the UK.

If the papers were sent to your last known address, that is all that is needed.  You not living there anymore isn't really relevant, otherwise all people would need to do to avoid being taken to court is to move address.

You also need a defence against the debt itself, which you don't have yet as you don't know what it relates to.

So, not having received the PCN and court papers during the tenancy period is not a defence at all. Seems unfair, if that is indeed how it is. 

How did they know you were no longer there?  Or that you were a tenant?

It might be a little slow, but that's generally to their detriment.  They won't get their money if they don't ask for it.

You could have set up mail forwarding, which is typically a good idea whenever you move and certainly, there's very little chance that a company would litigate within 4 months of the debt being created.   Had they you'd probably criticise them for jumping the gun a bit (and I'd agree with you there.)

taztheman

Can the court at least confirm the dates the hearing letters were issued, i mean if the court proceedings (i.e. first letters) didn't start till let's say February March, surely it would be a point in my favour or not.

PixelPound

taztheman said:

Can the court at least confirm the dates the hearing letters were issued, i mean if the court proceedings (i.e. first letters) didn't start till let's say February March, surely it would be a point in my favour or not.

What hearing?
For the CCJ a Claim form will have been sent by the Court and when there was no response, the parking company will simply have requested Judgment. No hearing.

If you are focussing on not being aware of the Claim or the fine prior to CCJ then you would still need to have a valid defence.

First question are you liable for the fine? If you have no defence, and it's more you would have paid if you were aware but due to selling car and moving abroad were unaware, then there is the set aside via consent. So if you can show it will have been served incorrectly, sold car, moved, informed DVLA, etc etc then a consent order that the CCJ is set aside on the basis you pay the debt is an option. It could also be handled without a hearing if all parties agreed (the parking company should be fine if it means getting paid).

PixelPound

ThisnotThat said:

taztheman said:

sourcrates said:

The court papers would go to the last known address of the debtor, the address the car was registered at.

For a set aside to be successful, you must satisfy two points.

Point one - you must have good reason why you did not respond to the court papers.
Point two - you must have a defence with a reasonable chance of success.

A defence to this would be, it was not my car, there were no signs, the ticket was incorrectly issued, etc etc, you get the idea.

Not being in receipt of the court papers alone does not constitute a defence to this.

The pcn offence date was 18/08/19. Surely the court letters wouldn't have arrived before 06/12/19 (date we vacated property) as the enforcement comoamy would have issued reminders ( which we obviously also dont remember receiving).
Also the car was sold around mid-November 2019. 
This is my only defence offcourse which can easily be proven (flight tickets,  passport entrance stamps). Also we are fairly confident that no PCN was not delivered in the three months post offence date, after which we no longer were in the UK.

If the papers were sent to your last known address, that is all that is needed.  You not living there anymore isn't really relevant, otherwise all people would need to do to avoid being taken to court is to move address.

You also need a defence against the debt itself, which you don't have yet as you don't know what it relates to.

Not necessarily as cut and dry. There have been plenty of cases where a company has issued to an old address that have been then set aside. Parking companies are notorious for using the address from DVLA they get initially and then not checking later, ignoring returned post with undelivered Royal Mail stickers on, or marked RTS, etc...

taztheman

nic_c said:

taztheman said:

Can the court at least confirm the dates the hearing letters were issued, i mean if the court proceedings (i.e. first letters) didn't start till let's say February March, surely it would be a point in my favour or not.

What hearing?
For the CCJ a Claim form will have been sent by the Court and when there was no response, the parking company will simply have requested Judgment. No hearing.

If you are focussing on not being aware of the Claim or the fine prior to CCJ then you would still need to have a valid defence.

First question are you liable for the fine? If you have no defence, and it's more you would have paid if you were aware but due to selling car and moving abroad were unaware, then there is the set aside via consent. So if you can show it will have been served incorrectly, sold car, moved, informed DVLA, etc etc then a consent order that the CCJ is set aside on the basis you pay the debt is an option. It could also be handled without a hearing if all parties agreed (the parking company should be fine if it means getting paid).

This is it, right now i am challenging the legality of pcn itself on following grounds:
a) Either it wasnt delivered until after December 2019
b) Or it was an incorrect pcn (car was rarely used by wife while i was away)
I think I'm going to request evidence for PCN for starters to put a perspect on things.

[Deleted User]

taztheman said:

nic_c said:

taztheman said:

Can the court at least confirm the dates the hearing letters were issued, i mean if the court proceedings (i.e. first letters) didn't start till let's say February March, surely it would be a point in my favour or not.

What hearing?
For the CCJ a Claim form will have been sent by the Court and when there was no response, the parking company will simply have requested Judgment. No hearing.

If you are focussing on not being aware of the Claim or the fine prior to CCJ then you would still need to have a valid defence.

First question are you liable for the fine? If you have no defence, and it's more you would have paid if you were aware but due to selling car and moving abroad were unaware, then there is the set aside via consent. So if you can show it will have been served incorrectly, sold car, moved, informed DVLA, etc etc then a consent order that the CCJ is set aside on the basis you pay the debt is an option. It could also be handled without a hearing if all parties agreed (the parking company should be fine if it means getting paid).

This is it, right now i am challenging the legality of pcn itself on following grounds:
a) Either it wasnt delivered until after December 2019
b) Or it was an incorrect pcn (car was rarely used by wife while i was away)
I think I'm going to request evidence for PCN for starters to put a perspect on things.

What evidence do you have to support this claim? How do you intend to prove it wasn't delivered until after December 2019 (remember, the burden of proof is on you, not them)? If they have proof of posting the letter, that is deemed as delivered 2 working days after posting if sent first class. They send it to the address on the RK form, which must match where you live - did it? August 2019 is way too early to blame say Covid for lost/delayed post and they would have sent multiple letters. As you left in June and ticket was issued in August when your wife must have used the car (you could check credit card statements etc to confirm that) do you not think she might just have thrown away the letter thinking it was junk?