Notice of Debt Recovery Letter but not driving

Leatham

@Redx

Your lack of paperwork is the missing link to enlightenment

Indeed it is. Lesson learnt!

Redx

I suspect that you received it 5 years ago and probably binned it

The Newbies FAQ sticky thread is designed to offer advice to people who have the paperwork to hand

Otherwise it's like a person who can see helping a blind person in a mine underground with little or no light

Once you get a copy of the NTK , you should see that tearoff slip and the warning about naming the driver

You will probably find that it failed to comply with POFA on timescales or wording or both

Which is why it was an easy win after an appeal to UKPC , at the subsequent Popla appeal , back in 2015 !!

Too late now , because you probably ignored it

I know this after 8 years of coming here and thousands of advice posts that I have made , including in 2015

Wait for the SAR reply , carefully check this contents , chances re you have no keeper liability

You can also check the 6 year deadline for court claims by the incident date

Leatham

@Redx,

You have hit the nail on the head to both the blind analogy and ignoring the document.

Gosh, 8 years! My hat off to you

Yes, these date Nov 2015 and June 2016 -  they're clearly trying to get these into court before the deadline

Our SAR has asked for all documents to be sent to us, so can I ask, will they or should they send the copy of NTK as part of this? 

I have been doing further research this morning (nothing else better to do as recovering from a knee replacement) and I have seen some parking companies then come back with further questions as delay tactics.  Would the SAR process delay their LBC?

I'll come back on here if I need help with the SAR response

Anyway SAR - check

Next, write to MP. Have had a look on the  Newbie thread but can't see a good template for one of these. Is there anything you know of please?

TAI

Le_Kirk

Companies have 30 days to reply to your SAR.  They SHOULD send ALL the data they hold on you including the NTK.  If you don't receive it, complain to the ICO.  Delaying tactics include asking for more ID.  You should only have to supply your V5C or, since it is a long time since the incident and you might have sold the car, copies of two recent utility bills or council tax bill NOT passport or driving licence.

Redx

Whilst they may apply delaying tactics , like asking for proof of I D etc , as long as you added 2 recent redacted utility bills as proof of I D under the GDPR law , they should send you copies of everything that is in your name , and only your name , so all correspondence from them , all pictures , etc , within the 30 days

No it won't delay any LBC or court claim , those are irrelevant to the DPO , their job is data protection and keeping data safe , they will have no interest in your case or you !

Yes they are trawling through old invoices in a quiet , money strapped period due to covid19 hammering their finances

No there are no templates for a complaint to the MP , each case is bespoke and this forum is a PCN forum , not a legal forum , as my signature points out. It's the old art of composing a letter !!
Even the SAR was a legal beagles template

So the SAR reply should contain all your data , and only your data , not your daughters data or a strangers data

Most of the regulars here have been posting here regularly for many years , so we know what the advice was in 2015 , the year the Beavis case kicked off , ignore was never in that advice

Leatham

That's perfect, thanks @Redx

I now have a very clear roadmap. Everyone's help on here is unbelievable!

Leatham

@Redx
Just a thought
I have noticed their correspondence is in my maiden name as I got married since V5
what should I send to prove my new name?

Coupon-mad

I have received two Notice of Debt Recovery Letters relating to a PCN for my daughter's car in Nov 2015, when she parked outside her place of work in a retail park.  I was the registered keeper of that vehicle at the time.
They never asked if I was driving it at the time.

Just a thought
I have noticed their correspondence is in my maiden name as I got married since V5
what should I send to prove my new name?

No, don't bother, I have a better plan to try to time the oldest one out, hopefully.

Reply to the debt letter - ON THE LAST DAY GIVEN FOR REPLY - even though we normally don't, telling DCBL that you have asked the parking firm for a SAR because you are trying to have a look at the dates and photo evidence to work out who was driving, because you don't believe it was you.  If they reply saying it's too late to transfer liability, slowly reply (always on the last day of 28 days) telling them that they are wrong and that a transfer of liability can take place at any time before court action.

Then wait for the SAR and see what letter you get after that, and always reply to DCBL Recovery asking something else, so they don't pass the case to DCBLegal.  Just ask question after question, slowly each time, tying them up.

When they finally do pass it up the line (hopefully months later) you will get a LBC from DCBLegal. 

Then wait till day 28 (always, no quick replies) and tell DCBLegal by email then - should be the Autumn - that you are seeking debt advice so they must put the case on hold, and also that you were not driving as far as you can tell from the dates and location revealed by the SAR this Summer.  They will reply saying you are too late to transfer liability (but in fact that's untrue, you are not).  But they have to put a case on hold if a person replies to a LBC saying they are seeking debt advice.

When they reply, it should be just weeks away from that first November cut off date, and you should then send them (on the last day that the 'on hold' runs out) the name and address of the driver and tell them you have researched it and the POFA 2012 certainly allows a keeper to transfer liability before court action, which LBC stage is, and therefore you require the parking firm client to be advised that the driver has been named and to send her the parking charge notices instead.  

If you are not quite there at that point, reply again (slowly) and tell them that your name has changed and ask what evidence they need of the change (but don't enclose it, make them ask).  They will reply 'marriage cert' and you can then slowly reply with that...you get the picture?

If they then send her letters, she should wait till the fist one has timed out then reply asking for a chance to appeal as this is the first she's heard of it.

If they send you a claim and ignore the transfer of liability, you have 100% defendable win on your hands and may have also timed out the oldest one, to boot.  A keeper who has named the driver before court action commences is not legally liable.  I think this is what will happen but heed the 'late reply every time' tactic to get to November.  

Is there only one PCN?  If so then the above tactic might just get you past the post.

Leatham

Wow, @Coupon-mad - great tactics.

We are looking at end of November, if you think its do-able?

(1)Date of contravention: 23rd November; 
(2) Date of contravention: 26th November;

Latest Final Reminder letters for both dated 6th April so I would need to reply by 8th May

I am not sure how I could spin it out. What do you think to:
May -  tell them I am going to ask for SAR as looking at dates with being a while ago
June -  not received SAR yet but question if it's worth asking landowner to cancel fines because if it was my daughter driving then she worked at the retail park.
July -  just received SAR and dates show it was my daughter driving, but need to just confirm her address as she has moved 
September- send daughter's address but then realise my name has changed, what do I do?
October - request to put case on hold as seeking debt advice
November - send wrong ID


I have a few questions, if I may:

Would it be of benefit to hold off sending the SAR, so my first letter to DBCL is that I am about to send a SAR. That would delay getting the dates and times back, wouldn't it?

What proof of ID do I send with the SAR  now (understand not the marriage certificate) Anything?  Something with my new name on?  I do have a current TV licence letter with my old name on.

DCBL website doesn't give email address, although at https://dcbltd.com/about-us/our-people/
there are email addresses and photos of every staff member, Should I send an email to Ops Director or post a letter to my local branch? Assume if by post, my letter would need to arrive by 8th May rather than be written on 8th May? I

I am going to request that Jones Lang LaSalle cancel the parking invoice. Should I  explain why my daughter parked in the car park -  felt unsafe and vulnerable at 5am?

Redx

informing DCBL of an impending SAR doesnt delay anything , its the 30 day delay pending debt management advice that does that , nothing else

maiden name or married name doesnt really matter, but if a court claim arrived there is a box in the AOS to give the name you are known by, if different, so if it comes in your maiden name you add your married name in that box,

2 recent redacted utility bills is proof of I D , and a marriage cert gives both names , t v licence , V5C, court claim form , official correspondence , all ok ( but not your driving licence or passport ) , too much ancilllary data like D O B )

any corrrespondence by DCB LEGAL LTD (or DCB ltd) should give contact details for email etc , check their contact us and privacy pages too

yes contact the landowner , but do not name said daughter, put female driver , or young female driver, try to keep to 3rd party language, no need to chuck anyone under the bus as yet