Power of Attorney question.

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  • naedanger
    naedanger Posts: 3,102 Forumite
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    ps2659 said:
    Pollycat said:
    ps2659 said:

    Thanks for the replies I have altered some of the wording and tried to make it clearer
    My Mum has 4 children to which I am the eldest son she is in a care home now I took out LPOA health and finance some time ago before she was diagnosed with early dementia I also lodged my registered LPOA finance with mums bank to which I am a joint account holder, once my two brothers and sister found out they all applied jointly for both LPOAs.

    I told them mum had given me £5000.00 in 2017 prior to me obtaining my LPOA to make sure she was buried next to dad when her time came, since then the three of them have not been happy about this and they think I have the money for my own use I have the money locked in my safe.

    1. When Mum asked me to hold the money for her funeral she was in full capacity I am also a joint account holder on mums accounts is this OK ?

    2. Her three other children some time later have taken her to the bank when she was not in not in full capacity and mum authorised the transfer from her account £3000.00 to each to them to there own bank accounts (not convinced she knew what was happening) this was in February 2020 a few weeks after they obtained POA mum was diagnosed with dementia in June 2019

    3. I believed an attorney for finances can act while the donor still has capacity and with the donors consent, and any monies taken from the account has to be used for the donor and not for themselves to do as they wish with.

    4. If money is taken from mums account for the benefit of the 3 children and not for mums needs is this a criminal offence and should I inform the police or deal with this through solicitors or just make them aware they have done wrong.

    I would be pleased to hear any legal or positive comments.



    You've still not clarified who has LPoA for your Mum.
    Savvy_Sue said:
    If your mum appointed you as her attorney, how did your siblings become attorneys? As far as I know, that could only be done if your mother made a new LPA naming them - so are you still her attorney or not? Either acting alone, or with your siblings? If your mum has made a new LPA, someone would have acted as Certificate Provider to confirm she knew what she was doing. 


    If you answer the above questions, things may become clearer to posters.
    At the moment nobody reading your posts know who has LPoA for your Mum.


    Mum appointed me as her attorney and then my 2 brothers and sister applied some time later and as I am aware they have joint LPoA so all four of us have it although  I am still registered as mums attorney  
    Then you really must contact the OPG. Their details are in the link in the third reply on this thread.  
  • elsien
    elsien Posts: 32,676 Forumite
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    edited 24 April 2021 at 5:27PM
    ps2659 said:
    Pollycat said:
    ps2659 said:

    Thanks for the replies I have altered some of the wording and tried to make it clearer
    My Mum has 4 children to which I am the eldest son she is in a care home now I took out LPOA health and finance some time ago before she was diagnosed with early dementia I also lodged my registered LPOA finance with mums bank to which I am a joint account holder, once my two brothers and sister found out they all applied jointly for both LPOAs.

    I told them mum had given me £5000.00 in 2017 prior to me obtaining my LPOA to make sure she was buried next to dad when her time came, since then the three of them have not been happy about this and they think I have the money for my own use I have the money locked in my safe.

    1. When Mum asked me to hold the money for her funeral she was in full capacity I am also a joint account holder on mums accounts is this OK ?

    2. Her three other children some time later have taken her to the bank when she was not in not in full capacity and mum authorised the transfer from her account £3000.00 to each to them to there own bank accounts (not convinced she knew what was happening) this was in February 2020 a few weeks after they obtained POA mum was diagnosed with dementia in June 2019

    3. I believed an attorney for finances can act while the donor still has capacity and with the donors consent, and any monies taken from the account has to be used for the donor and not for themselves to do as they wish with.

    4. If money is taken from mums account for the benefit of the 3 children and not for mums needs is this a criminal offence and should I inform the police or deal with this through solicitors or just make them aware they have done wrong.

    I would be pleased to hear any legal or positive comments.



    You've still not clarified who has LPoA for your Mum.
    Savvy_Sue said:
    If your mum appointed you as her attorney, how did your siblings become attorneys? As far as I know, that could only be done if your mother made a new LPA naming them - so are you still her attorney or not? Either acting alone, or with your siblings? If your mum has made a new LPA, someone would have acted as Certificate Provider to confirm she knew what she was doing. 


    If you answer the above questions, things may become clearer to posters.
    At the moment nobody reading your posts know who has LPoA for your Mum.


    Mum appointed me as her attorney and then my 2 brothers and sister applied some time later and as I am aware they have joint LPoA so all four of us have it although  I am still registered as mums attorney  
    It doesn’t work like that. Attorneys can’t just be added on to an existing LPA. 
    Was your LPA registered with the OPG?
    I agree that you need to clarify with the OPG who holds what. 
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
  • Pollycat
    Pollycat Posts: 34,651 Forumite
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    OP
    You really need to clarify the situation regarding who has LPoA for your Mum.

    When your siblings applied for LPoA did your Mum still have capacity?


    Read this (taken from GOV.UK) especially the bit about adding another attorney.

    Change your lasting power of attorney

    You can ask the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) to change your lasting power of attorney (LPA) if it’s been registered and you still have mental capacity to make decisions.

    If you want to remove one of your attorneys

    You will need to send OPG a written statement called a ‘partial deed of revocation’.

    If you want to add another attorney you need to end your LPA and make a new one.


    What exactly did your Mum agree to about your other siblings having joint LPoA?
    If she agreed to the other siblings being joint attorneys, was the original LPoA (naming you as the single attorney) ended and a new one set up?


  • ps2659
    ps2659 Posts: 530 Forumite
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    elsien said:
    ps2659 said:
    Pollycat said:
    ps2659 said:

    Thanks for the replies I have altered some of the wording and tried to make it clearer
    My Mum has 4 children to which I am the eldest son she is in a care home now I took out LPOA health and finance some time ago before she was diagnosed with early dementia I also lodged my registered LPOA finance with mums bank to which I am a joint account holder, once my two brothers and sister found out they all applied jointly for both LPOAs.

    I told them mum had given me £5000.00 in 2017 prior to me obtaining my LPOA to make sure she was buried next to dad when her time came, since then the three of them have not been happy about this and they think I have the money for my own use I have the money locked in my safe.

    1. When Mum asked me to hold the money for her funeral she was in full capacity I am also a joint account holder on mums accounts is this OK ?

    2. Her three other children some time later have taken her to the bank when she was not in not in full capacity and mum authorised the transfer from her account £3000.00 to each to them to there own bank accounts (not convinced she knew what was happening) this was in February 2020 a few weeks after they obtained POA mum was diagnosed with dementia in June 2019

    3. I believed an attorney for finances can act while the donor still has capacity and with the donors consent, and any monies taken from the account has to be used for the donor and not for themselves to do as they wish with.

    4. If money is taken from mums account for the benefit of the 3 children and not for mums needs is this a criminal offence and should I inform the police or deal with this through solicitors or just make them aware they have done wrong.

    I would be pleased to hear any legal or positive comments.



    You've still not clarified who has LPoA for your Mum.
    Savvy_Sue said:
    If your mum appointed you as her attorney, how did your siblings become attorneys? As far as I know, that could only be done if your mother made a new LPA naming them - so are you still her attorney or not? Either acting alone, or with your siblings? If your mum has made a new LPA, someone would have acted as Certificate Provider to confirm she knew what she was doing. 


    If you answer the above questions, things may become clearer to posters.
    At the moment nobody reading your posts know who has LPoA for your Mum.


    Mum appointed me as her attorney and then my 2 brothers and sister applied some time later and as I am aware they have joint LPoA so all four of us have it although  I am still registered as mums attorney  
    It doesn’t work like that. Attorneys can’t just be added on to an existing LPA. 
    Was your LPA registered with the OPG?
    I agree that you need to clarify with the OPG who holds what. 
    No Attorney was added to my LPA I applied for this and this was registered, then some months later my 2 brothers and sister applied for LPA  and they have POA for mum nothing was added to my existing Attorney they have it also.
  • elsien
    elsien Posts: 32,676 Forumite
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    edited 24 April 2021 at 7:45PM
    They can’t just apply for a second one. Mum would have to revoke the existing one with you on it and complete a new one. Did mum have capacity to do this?
    I suggest you use the link previously posted to double check with the OPG which LPA/deputyship are currently  in place. You should get a reply in a few days. 
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
  • Pollycat
    Pollycat Posts: 34,651 Forumite
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    OP
    You really do need to read the links to GOV.UK about how POA works.

    As Elsien has already pointed out - and I have given you the wording from GOV.UK - it does not work like you say it has.

    You cannot have 2 different POAs for the same person with different named attorneys.
    Unless you are talking about Health & Welfare and Property & Financial Affairs and you are attorney for one and your siblings are attorneys for the other.

  • Sea_Shell
    Sea_Shell Posts: 9,340 Forumite
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    edited 25 April 2021 at 8:00AM
    and you can't just "take one out" on someone. 

    The donor is the one who applies, NOT the attorney.    Although they may assist the donor in completing the forms.

    They need carefully drawing up, signed by the donor, and the attorneys, and witnessed by a Third Party.

    So someone here has their wires crossed.
    How's it going, AKA, Nutwatch? - 12 month spends to date = 2.31% of current retirement "pot" (as at end March 2024)
  • Flugelhorn
    Flugelhorn Posts: 5,551 Forumite
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    I hope no-one has thought they can just add names to the paperwork 
  • anmarj
    anmarj Posts: 1,819 Forumite
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    Could it be the OP has the old enduring Poa and never registered it when mum lost capacity?

    From experience people that had the old style, never registered when the person lost capacity and still used it even though they shouldn’t have.
  • Pollycat
    Pollycat Posts: 34,651 Forumite
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    Clarity is definitely required.
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