Octopus Tracker

BargainBear

QrizB said:

BargainBear said:

I would strongly recommend reading the small print of any "EV" tariff prior to signing on the dotted line; I imagine they sneak in their right to access the energy within the batteries there.  I haven't checked the small print of their current EV tariffs, but it wouldn't suprise me if it's already in there.

You're just spreading FUD now.

matt_drummer said:

It won't be happening to me. There's always a way to stop it.
Don't plug it in until you need to charge, then they wont have the opportunity.

It's physically impossible to extract grid-synchronised AC from an EV battery without a bidirectional charger (which includes a similar inverter to a grid-tie solar one). The only vast majority of UK EV chargers don't include this ability. There is zero possibility of eg. Octopus extracting electricity from an EV battery using a conventional EV home charging point.

BargainBear said:

My concern would be the degradation of said batteries which would ultimately effect their lifespan.

Experience with the various V2G trials has shown that gentle charging and discharging (as you'd get from V2G, where you're limited to 7kW) *increases* the life of EV batteries, rather than degrades them. Its driving your EV and using fast chargers that does the damage.
@michaels is/was in the Octopus V2G trial and might have more info?

It's not FUD if it's true.

Having a quick skim of their T&C's full control of home batteries is provided to them under section 2.4.2.9 of the Intelligent Octopus Flux tariff, and section 2.4.2.10 absolves them of any and all legal liability for damage or degredation of said batteries.

The current V2G tariff "Octopus Power Pack" is an available add-on to certain tariffs. Section 2.10.7(d)(e) signs over full control of all batteries and low carbon technology in your property to do with as they see fit. They've absolved themselves from any and all legal liability for any damage or degredation of your home battery, car batteries and any low carbon tech under section 2.10.8.

Your comment about V2G increasing the life of batteries is a misnomer and simply false. Any use of a battery degrades it's life. I believe what you meant to say is that depending on how the battery is used it can help improve its performance compared to fast chargers which degrade the battery cells through the creation of heat. I know Tesla are constantly monitoring this and adjusting/optimizing charging via their super chargers to reduce/limit degradation.

matt_drummer

BargainBear said:

QrizB said:

BargainBear said:

I would strongly recommend reading the small print of any "EV" tariff prior to signing on the dotted line; I imagine they sneak in their right to access the energy within the batteries there.  I haven't checked the small print of their current EV tariffs, but it wouldn't suprise me if it's already in there.

You're just spreading FUD now.

matt_drummer said:

It won't be happening to me. There's always a way to stop it.
Don't plug it in until you need to charge, then they wont have the opportunity.

It's physically impossible to extract grid-synchronised AC from an EV battery without a bidirectional charger (which includes a similar inverter to a grid-tie solar one). The only vast majority of UK EV chargers don't include this ability. There is zero possibility of eg. Octopus extracting electricity from an EV battery using a conventional EV home charging point.

BargainBear said:

My concern would be the degradation of said batteries which would ultimately effect their lifespan.

Experience with the various V2G trials has shown that gentle charging and discharging (as you'd get from V2G, where you're limited to 7kW) *increases* the life of EV batteries, rather than degrades them. Its driving your EV and using fast chargers that does the damage.
@michaels is/was in the Octopus V2G trial and might have more info?

It's not FUD if it's true.

Having a quick skim of their T&C's full control of home batteries is provided to them under section 2.4.2.9 of the Octopus Flux tariff, and section 2.4.2.10 absolves them of any and all legal liability for damage or degredation of said batteries.

The current V2G tariff "Octopus Power Pack" is an available add-on to certain tariffs. Section 2.10.7(d)(e) signs over full control of all batteries and low carbon technology in your property to do with as they see fit. They've absolved themselves from any and all legal liability for any damage or degredation of your home battery, car batteries and any low carbon tech under section 2.10.8.

Your comment about V2G increasing the life of batteries is a misnomer and simply false. Any use of a battery degrades it's life. I believe what you meant to say is that depending on how the battery is used it can help improve its performance compared to fast chargers which degrade the battery cells through the creation of heat. I know Tesla are constantly monitoring this and adjusting/optimizing charging via their super chargers to reduce/limit degradation.

There are two versions of Flux and I think you are referring to Intelligent Flux, the normal version does not give them control of your home batteries.

As far as batteries are concerned, heat and charge/discharge rates can be damaging.

In no way do extra cycles help, these batteries have a limited number of cycles, however gentle they may be, you are still using them up!

You are spot on.

BargainBear

matt_drummer said:

BargainBear said:

QrizB said:

BargainBear said:

I would strongly recommend reading the small print of any "EV" tariff prior to signing on the dotted line; I imagine they sneak in their right to access the energy within the batteries there.  I haven't checked the small print of their current EV tariffs, but it wouldn't suprise me if it's already in there.

You're just spreading FUD now.

matt_drummer said:

It won't be happening to me. There's always a way to stop it.
Don't plug it in until you need to charge, then they wont have the opportunity.

It's physically impossible to extract grid-synchronised AC from an EV battery without a bidirectional charger (which includes a similar inverter to a grid-tie solar one). The only vast majority of UK EV chargers don't include this ability. There is zero possibility of eg. Octopus extracting electricity from an EV battery using a conventional EV home charging point.

BargainBear said:

My concern would be the degradation of said batteries which would ultimately effect their lifespan.

Experience with the various V2G trials has shown that gentle charging and discharging (as you'd get from V2G, where you're limited to 7kW) *increases* the life of EV batteries, rather than degrades them. Its driving your EV and using fast chargers that does the damage.
@michaels is/was in the Octopus V2G trial and might have more info?

It's not FUD if it's true.

Having a quick skim of their T&C's full control of home batteries is provided to them under section 2.4.2.9 of the Octopus Flux tariff, and section 2.4.2.10 absolves them of any and all legal liability for damage or degredation of said batteries.

The current V2G tariff "Octopus Power Pack" is an available add-on to certain tariffs. Section 2.10.7(d)(e) signs over full control of all batteries and low carbon technology in your property to do with as they see fit. They've absolved themselves from any and all legal liability for any damage or degredation of your home battery, car batteries and any low carbon tech under section 2.10.8.

Your comment about V2G increasing the life of batteries is a misnomer and simply false. Any use of a battery degrades it's life. I believe what you meant to say is that depending on how the battery is used it can help improve its performance compared to fast chargers which degrade the battery cells through the creation of heat. I know Tesla are constantly monitoring this and adjusting/optimizing charging via their super chargers to reduce/limit degradation.

There are two versions of Flux and I think you are referring to Intelligent Flux, the normal version does not give them control of your home batteries.

As far as batteries are concerned, heat and charge/discharge rates can be damaging.

In no way do extra cycles help, these batteries have a limited number of cycles, however gentle they may be, you are still using them up!

You are spot on.

You're quite right Matt, thanks for the correction on the intelligent omission, I've edited my original post to avoid any confusion.

There are some very carefully worded sections within a lot of their tariffs giving full permissions to control all low carbon technology as they see fit, so as I said before consumer beware!

QrizB

BargainBear said:

QrizB said:

BargainBear said:

I would strongly recommend reading the small print of any "EV" tariff prior to signing on the dotted line; I imagine they sneak in their right to access the energy within the batteries there.  I haven't checked the small print of their current EV tariffs, but it wouldn't suprise me if it's already in there.

You're just spreading FUD now.

matt_drummer said:

It won't be happening to me. There's always a way to stop it.
Don't plug it in until you need to charge, then they wont have the opportunity.

It's physically impossible to extract grid-synchronised AC from an EV battery without a bidirectional charger (which includes a similar inverter to a grid-tie solar one). The only vast majority of UK EV chargers don't include this ability. There is zero possibility of eg. Octopus extracting electricity from an EV battery using a conventional EV home charging point.

BargainBear said:

My concern would be the degradation of said batteries which would ultimately effect their lifespan.

Experience with the various V2G trials has shown that gentle charging and discharging (as you'd get from V2G, where you're limited to 7kW) *increases* the life of EV batteries, rather than degrades them. Its driving your EV and using fast chargers that does the damage.
@michaels is/was in the Octopus V2G trial and might have more info?

It's not FUD if it's true.

But it's not true, is it?

Your exact words were:

"I would strongly recommend reading the small print of any "EV" tariff prior to signing on the dotted line; I imagine they sneak in their right to access the energy within the batteries there.  I haven't checked the small print of their current EV tariffs, but it wouldn't suprise me if it's already in there."

It is impossible to "access the energy within the batteries" via a normal home EV charging point. Your statement is entirely without merit.

tony863

Telegraph_Sam said:

I'm in the same boat as you. From reading the numerous comments of others in this forum I'll find it hard to switch to Tom considering the actual "savings" at stake as against the organizational and financial uncertainties.

Agreed Sam. I have just been catching up on the past 10 pages of the TE thread. Very high risk by the sound of it, but quite a few saying they'll ride the storm and deal with getting moved to an alternative supplier if it comes to it. I am tempted to go fixed and then look for something more stable in the coming months. I did the same with Gas and feel better that I don't have to keep watching the trackers volatility! It's literally crystal balm time, but one thing that's undeniable is there are no fixed deals out there that are meaningfully cheaper than what Octopus are currently offering. TE doesn't look safe enough to jump ship, so if there's nothing cheaper, does that signal the market is slowly heading in one direction? 

With no cancellation fee, it kinda makes sense to switch and secure the rate on the fixed, and then move to a cheaper fixed if and when it gets advertised. 

Sorry @matt_drummer, I did find it afterwards, but wanted views of people in a similar situation to me. 

matt_drummer

@tony863

No need to apologise

Just thought it was funny asking if anybody had considered it with the quickly growing thread in progress.

tony863

Thanks Matt, I was mindful to not come across as being ignorant to your suggestion. 

I've just taken the plunge to switch onto the fixed. It's 6p more per day standing charge, but that can easily be saved or reduced with the stability of 25.33p per unit versus the volatility of tracker. 42p per unit for me tomorrow, which eats up any lower rate savings I've made over the past few days/weeks! 

matt_drummer

tony863 said:

Thanks Matt, I was mindful to not come across as being ignorant to your suggestion. 

I've just taken the plunge to switch onto the fixed. It's 6p more per day standing charge, but that can easily be saved or reduced with the stability of 25.33p per unit versus the volatility of tracker. 42p per unit for me tomorrow, which eats up any lower rate savings I've made over the past few days/weeks! 

I try and be a bit light hearted amongst the doom and gloom of this sometimes, often doesn't work

Telegraph_Sam

tony863 said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

I'm in the same boat as you. From reading the numerous comments of others in this forum I'll find it hard to switch to Tom considering the actual "savings" at stake as against the organizational and financial uncertainties.

Agreed Sam. I have just been catching up on the past 10 pages of the TE thread. Very high risk by the sound of it, but quite a few saying they'll ride the storm and deal with getting moved to an alternative supplier if it comes to it. I am tempted to go fixed and then look for something more stable in the coming months. I did the same with Gas and feel better that I don't have to keep watching the trackers volatility! It's literally crystal balm time, but one thing that's undeniable is there are no fixed deals out there that are meaningfully cheaper than what Octopus are currently offering. TE doesn't look safe enough to jump ship, so if there's nothing cheaper, does that signal the market is slowly heading in one direction? 

With no cancellation fee, it kinda makes sense to switch and secure the rate on the fixed, and then move to a cheaper fixed if and when it gets advertised. 

Sorry @matt_drummer, I did find it afterwards, but wanted views of people in a similar situation to me. 

I mentioned in a previous post that Uswitch put me onto "100% Green"'s fix but I have yet to unearth anything on these people yet.  I intend to do some more searches which I might circulate to see if they ring any bells with the forumites

northernstar007

i go for a few hrs and come back to a essay