Octopus Tracker

BargainBear

QrizB said:

BargainBear said:

QrizB said:

BargainBear said:

One thing to remember is that Octopus utilise the energy from customers EV's whilst plugged in to offset purchasing any to meet demand

I don't think their V2G trial is still running, and (if it is) it only involves a small number of vehicles.

Other than thaat, the only way they can exploit customers' EV charging is via Intelligent Octopus Go where they can schedule charging to avoid peaks in demand. This is quite different to our claim of "utilising the energy from customers EVs".

From my understanding it still is (I work for a DNO).  Hence they're continually offering charger incentives if leasing particular EV's through their schemes.

Yes, you're right, https://octopus.energy/power-pack/

They're using ChaDeMo vehicles, which realistically means a Nissan Leaf or eNV200. And the only compatible charer is the Quasar 1 which is discontinued and no longer available.

Almost all vehicles sold today are CCS, and as far as I know there isn't a commercially-available bidirectional CCS charger. Happy to be proved wrong if you know otherwise!

There's a few other models.  I believe Tesla have stated they aim to have all of their vehicles capable of bi-directional charging by 2025.  The model 3 and Y are already when using a Ambibox GmbH bidirectional charger.

matt_drummer

BargainBear said:

QrizB said:

BargainBear said:

QrizB said:

BargainBear said:

One thing to remember is that Octopus utilise the energy from customers EV's whilst plugged in to offset purchasing any to meet demand

I don't think their V2G trial is still running, and (if it is) it only involves a small number of vehicles.

Other than thaat, the only way they can exploit customers' EV charging is via Intelligent Octopus Go where they can schedule charging to avoid peaks in demand. This is quite different to our claim of "utilising the energy from customers EVs".

From my understanding it still is (I work for a DNO).  Hence they're continually offering charger incentives if leasing particular EV's through their schemes.

Yes, you're right, https://octopus.energy/power-pack/

They're using ChaDeMo vehicles, which realistically means a Nissan Leaf or eNV200. And the only compatible charer is the Quasar 1 which is discontinued and no longer available.

Almost all vehicles sold today are CCS, and as far as I know there isn't a commercially-available bidirectional CCS charger. Happy to be proved wrong if you know otherwise!

There's a few other models.  I believe Tesla have stated they aim to have all of their vehicles capable of bi-directional charging by 2025.  The model 3 and Y are already when using a Ambibox GmbH bidirectional charger.

I am getting a new Tesla in ten weeks time.

It won't be doing any bi-directional charging!

QrizB

BargainBear said:

QrizB said:

Yes, you're right, https://octopus.energy/power-pack/

They're using ChaDeMo vehicles, which realistically means a Nissan Leaf or eNV200. And the only compatible charer is the Quasar 1 which is discontinued and no longer available.

Almost all vehicles sold today are CCS, and as far as I know there isn't a commercially-available bidirectional CCS charger. Happy to be proved wrong if you know otherwise!

There's a few other models.

Pretty much all of those apart from the ChaDeMo ones are V2L, though (the exception being the Ford F-150 Lightning which is a US-only model). The article you linked to has conflated the list from their own source (here) which has a more detailed breakdown.

The VW iD models do V2H, per the VW announcement. The only mention of V2G is as a pending enhancement - "in future also provide power to stabilise the electricity grid".

The Ambibox charger is currently a pre-production demonstrator, as far as I can tell. Due to launch in 2025 per this article.

Telegraph_Sam

Re pricing-charging-formulas FWIW I've got all the formulas worked out in a spreadsheet showing how these interact with wholesale price variations.  But I have not taken account of the cap(s)

matt_drummer

Telegraph_Sam said:

Re pricing-charging-formulas FWIW I've got all the formulas worked out in a spreadsheet showing how these interact with wholesale price variations.  But I have not taken account of the cap(s)

What does the wholesale price need to be to drop below the SVT Sam?

Telegraph_Sam

Ah.  What I've got is a series of conversion "factors" corresponding to the formulas listed in the FAQ's for each of the tariff versions. As someone pointed out the factor depends on the wholesale price that I input. So it should be possible to reverse-engineer the equation to see what wholesale price corresponds to a given value such as the SVT, if you would kindly let me know.

matt_drummer

Telegraph_Sam said:

Ah.  What I've got is a series of conversion "factors" corresponding to the formulas listed in the FAQ's for each of the tariff versions. As someone pointed out the factor depends on the wholesale price that I input. So it should be possible to reverse-engineer the equation to see what wholesale price corresponds to a given value such as the SVT, if you would kindly let me know.

Well, that is all you really need to know.

Take the formula and work out what wholesale cost makes the Tracker price go over the SVT or any available fix.

When you know this, then you can make a judgement about how often you think the wholesale price will be below that value.

The more times the wholesale price is lower than this value, the more times you will be paying less than the SVT or an available fix.

Conversely, the more times the wholesale price is over this value, the reverse will be true.

I think this is the new formula

(W * 1.22442) + 12.29569 p per kWh

If the SVT is 24p (I don't know for your area) then

24p - 12.29569p = 11.70431p then divide that by 1.22442 gives 9.55906p

So, if the wholesale price is less than 9.55906p per kWh then Tracker is cheaper, if not SVT @24p per kWh is the same or better.

Just substitute the numbers for your region.

You don't need a spreadsheet, it is a one off calculation based on the latest formula.

tghe-retford

While this may be a blip in terms of the weather, the price cap predictions suggest that this isn't a few days of high prices and then back below cap. It seems now that prices will remain at or above cap for a while. Time to jump ship. And sooner rather than later. Deals are already being pulled as the energy companies anticipate higher prices.

QrizB

matt_drummer said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

Re pricing-charging-formulas FWIW I've got all the formulas worked out in a spreadsheet showing how these interact with wholesale price variations.  But I have not taken account of the cap(s)

What does the wholesale price need to be to drop below the SVT Sam?

The current price cap (link) is 24.5p/kWh.

In my region (Southern) the most recent Tracker formula (link) is (W * 1.21340) + 11.57629 p per kWh

If the wholesale price W was 10.66p/kWh (£106.6/MWh), Tracker would cost ~24.5p/kWh (there's a whole bunch of trailing decimls that won't add up to a hill of beans).

It'll be slightly different in other regions.

(The detailed Ofgem table (link) states the Southern region price cap is 24.98p. That would make W 11.05p/kWh, (£110.5/MWh). The same ballpark.)

Telegraph_Sam

By my calcs a wholesale price of 9.8 p equates to an SVT of 23.5.  I think that 9.8 p is fairly middling