Octopus Tracker

Doc_N

MP1995 said:

stripling said:

MP1995

When previous formulas they made a loss as an exercise in tariffs they believe they and others should offer (to the people, for the people). 

No they didn't this is an absolute myth.  
Apart from the fact that Tracker went sky high quite a few times over the years it was not a loss-maker. Please don't fool yourself with Octopus's very effective PR. Octopus is an IT platform company backed by hedge funds - energy is practically a side hustle. 
Not getting into the rest of this debate but couldn't let that one slide. 

Prove it !

It’s impossible to prove anything - either way. Octopus are the only ones with the figures, and it depends how much of their spin you believe. Personally, very little - Greg Jackson is a master of spin.

masonic

It is very bizarre to suggest that any organisation would go through the trouble and regulatory hurdles of registering as an energy supplier, but not have enough business nous to sell energy at a price that is sustainable once they have built a dominant market share. For those who feel they have gone to far and are profiteering, or dislike them for other reasons, it is still relatively easy to switch supplier. Staying put and harbouring hostility towards a business is not worth it, and moving on may be a breath of fresh air.

spot1034

Well whatever the history, surely it's about time that other suppliers launched their own version of Tracker, then there will be a competitive element. A few months ago, I looked up a list of available tariffs from E.ON Next and there were several with odd names that looked like they had been put in by accident and some were marked as only available to some customers.  One of these was called Tracker Test - it most definitely wasn't the Next Pledge Tracker but seemed to be a replica of Octopus's Tracker, with a rate at that time about a penny lower than the Octopus price on that day - it was around 17.5p compared to 18.5p ish for Octopus. These tariffs had disappeared from this list the following day and I don't think they should ever have been there, but I have been looking out for them to launch their own Tracker ever since, and it still hasn't happened. 

MP1995

(Removed by Forum Team)

As a company yes they are recently (last few years bouyant) but the particular tracker product was a loss maker for them. We were not talking about everything Octopus do just the tracker product.

What a wonderful thing to do, to bring an innovative product to the market to make a loss and keep it loss making for soo long.

They should be applauded imo.

I don't mind being a fan (girl) of them as a household our total energy bill on Agile is £1200 for a big detached house and on top of that we earn about £70 in the saving sessions, about £10 on spin the wheel. We get a free £4 coffee a week and we introduced 6 households this year for a handy £300 off.

It works out at between 7-8p kwh for electricity taking the above into account for the past year. Hell yeah and we haven't even started our solar journey yet.

Doc_N

MP1995 said:

stripling said:

What? Prove what?
I've been on Tracker for years, since the very 1st version - it went sky high multiple times.
Hedge fund? 🤦🏻‍♀️ Go read.... 
Platform company? 🤦🏻‍♀️ Check their annual reports and how much Kraken earns them around the planet. 
It's my job to keep an eye on these things but seriously, it's not rocket science. 
That's your lot - I think you are suffering a serious dose of fan boy-itis. The only cure is pain. 🫢😂

As a company yes they are recently (last few years bouyant) but the particular tracker product was a loss maker for them. We were not talking about everything Octopus do just the tracker product.

What a wonderful thing to do, to bring an innovative product to the market to make a loss and keep it loss making for soo long.

They should be applauded imo.

Certainly Octopus claim that it was a loss maker. Whether you accept that depends on how much trust you place on the statements of one of the largest energy companies in the UK. And how exactly they’re defining ‘loss’. Very simple matter to convert a profit to a loss with an appropriate accountancy treatment.

stripling

matt_drummer
The retail energy market operates on small margins and has to deal with many difficult issues, Again, I think you are being pretty harsh and unfair. You may not like energy prices but Octopus and others are not the culprits, it's a global market and that is what sets the prices we all have to pay.

I've been working on a grid research project so have had to encounter more arcane energy market stuff than I normally would. The UK really needs to de-link electricity from gas prices. There also needs to be some kind of clamp down on energy market speculation although that's not a specifically 'British' problem.

The dodgy deals on the Dutch market by speculators playing big money games are crazy - an analyst showed me how seriously distorting this is, first on gas and then feeding through to UK electricity prices and yet it's legal. 

It certainly is a global market that's influenced by all kinds of geopolitical things (never mind the added perils of speculators) although the sooner we up our grid, decarbonise and quit gas the less we're at the mercy of it. However, those piggies are probably preparing for take off. Sadly. 🐖🐖🐖

matt_drummer

stripling said:

matt_drummer
The retail energy market operates on small margins and has to deal with many difficult issues, Again, I think you are being pretty harsh and unfair. You may not like energy prices but Octopus and others are not the culprits, it's a global market and that is what sets the prices we all have to pay.

I've been working on a grid research project so have had to encounter more arcane energy market stuff than I normally would. The UK really needs to de-link electricity from gas prices. There also needs to be some kind of clamp down on energy market speculation although that's not a specifically 'British' problem.

The dodgy deals on the Dutch market by speculators playing big money games are crazy - an analyst showed me how seriously distorting this is, first on gas and then feeding through to UK electricity prices and yet it's legal. 

It certainly is a global market that's influenced by all kinds of geopolitical things (never mind the added perils of speculators) although the sooner we up our grid, decarbonise and quit gas the less we're at the mercy of it. However, those piggies are probably preparing for take off. Sadly. 🐖🐖🐖

The real issue is that people don't like other people making large profits or profits at all. We always want the best quality at rock bottom prices and seem to despise other people's success.

Not that all of these energy companies make large margins, it's just that the numbers are big so even small margins make what are perceived to be really large profits.

The fact that most of us have little choice in whether to buy energy or not compounds the issue.

We live in a world where we have lots of information available to us but unless we really understand it is really easy to jump to the wrong conclusion.

In terms of Octopus Tracker, whether they make a profit or not, and how much that might be is not that relevant. 

What really matters is, does it work in reducing energy costs compared to what else is available.

If it does, then what Octopus may or may not make is of no concern in the decision making process.

I suppose that if you had a few wind turbines, you might argue that you should get the same price per unit as a gas power station.

The fault lies in how it has all been set up, not with Octopus Energy or the like.

We do it all the time, we cheap out, get somebody else to do it and take all the risk rather than investing as a country.

You can't get somebody else to pay for everything and take all the risks and then complain when they get rewarded in accordance with the terms of the deal.

We haven't paid for much. It's `cake and eat it' as it always is with us.

We have sold pretty much everything we ever had to fund lower taxes and then complain when the buyers make a profit.

Collectively we're a bunch of fools!

northernstar007

gas is creeping up, watching the market price also took a increase today
a lot of us still on original tracker with end dates this year (mine nov) and dreading it, the electric i can shift so agile will be the most likely but for gas looking at least 5.2p compared to 4issh ive been paying

saying that im looking at a bill from jan23 in a fix with SP and gas 7.85p (both SC 19.1p), but then i wasnt in the house all day which i am now so i be using more gas than jan23

BarelySentientAI

MP1995 said:

stripling said:

What? Prove what?
I've been on Tracker for years, since the very 1st version - it went sky high multiple times.
Hedge fund? 🤦🏻‍♀️ Go read.... 
Platform company? 🤦🏻‍♀️ Check their annual reports and how much Kraken earns them around the planet. 
It's my job to keep an eye on these things but seriously, it's not rocket science. 
That's your lot - I think you are suffering a serious dose of fan boy-itis. The only cure is pain. 🫢😂

As a company yes they are recently (last few years bouyant) but the particular tracker product was a loss maker for them. We were not talking about everything Octopus do just the tracker product.

What a wonderful thing to do, to bring an innovative product to the market to make a loss and keep it loss making for soo long.

You have no evidence that the tracker product ever made a loss, apart from Octopus's PR team claiming that it did.

You have no idea what price they paid in the contract that purchased the energy that they supplied to you.

BarelySentientAI

matt_drummer said:

I suppose that if you had a few wind turbines, you might argue that you should get the same price per unit as a gas power station.

I certainly would.  If I have made exactly the same product as someone else, I would not expect to be forced to sell it cheaper just because my manufacturing process was more efficient.

I would be able to choose to do so, which I might do in a demand-constrained market, and I shouldn't be allowed to discuss with the other manufacturers what price we might like to achieve, but that's just normal competition law.

stripling said:

I've been working on a grid research project so have had to encounter more arcane energy market stuff than I normally would. The UK really needs to de-link electricity from gas prices. There also needs to be some kind of clamp down on energy market speculation although that's not a specifically 'British' problem.

The dodgy deals on the Dutch market by speculators playing big money games are crazy - an analyst showed me how seriously distorting this is, first on gas and then feeding through to UK electricity prices and yet it's legal. 

It certainly is a global market that's influenced by all kinds of geopolitical things (never mind the added perils of speculators) although the sooner we up our grid, decarbonise and quit gas the less we're at the mercy of it. 

If you think that market speculation and gas prices have an impact, wait until you look at what people can do with constraints and grid balancing.  Asking for 150x the normal price to turn up or down because your sister power station has suddenly and unexpectedly developed a problem at the worst possible time for the grid?

That used to be my job (or at least part of it).