Any other Stakers?

Scottex99

Malthusian said:

dunstonh said:

Just bought a some DOT and started Staking it on Kraken. Interest rate (RPY) of about 12%

Starting to sound like a different language.....

"Bought DOT" = "I handed over real money to a crypto bro and he gave me some tokens"

"Staking" = "shuffling punters' money around"

"Interest" = "as long as I don't cash out I get awarded more imaginary tokens"

"Phenomenal compared to savings accounts and mainstream funds" = "I'm gonna get rich quick bro, why aren't you"

As opposed to, "I keep my money in the bank, they lend it out, create all sorts of weird and wonderful products with it, and make 5000x what they pay me interest"?

Nexo pays interest daily, cash out anytime. Celsius weekly fair enough but I've done exactly $1,225 from there since October. Not mega bucks but better than the £3 my bank would have paid me. Can also cash it out right this second if I want

Gary1984

darren232002 said:

As I have said, it comes from a very legitimate and sustainable use case. 

Well that's me convinced. So I buy $100 of tokens from an exchange. The $100 of tokens are deposited with a bank to fully back the value of my tokens (let's say the bank pays $2 interest). In a year I have my original 100 tokens plus 10 more in interest. Where did my 10 tokens come from? The issuer could create them, sure. But unless they have another $8 to add to the $2 interest from the bank they're no longer fully backed.

So either a) I don't get my 10% interest after all
b) They aren't 100% backed after all, destroying their USP
c) The exchange has lost $8 and will soon go bust
d) It's a big ponzi scheme and the extra $8 is being paid by new investors to keep new deposits rolling in. At some point the issuer/exchange will withdraw all the real money nominally backing the tokens from the bank and run off with it, leaving all investors with worthless strings of 1s and 0s.

I'm going for d). 

maxsteam

Flatulentoldgoat said:

Interest rate (RPY) of about 12%. That's phenomenal compared to what you could expect to receive in an ordinary savings

It's extremely misleading to compare a speculative investment with an ordinary savings account. A line like the one above often accompanies fine wine scams or cemetery plot land schemes. There will be a day when the regulatory authorities catch up with cryptocurrencies. There will also be a day when an employee at a cryptocurrency exchange takes the money and runs. When that day comes, those who have savings in an ordinary savings account will still have their savings.

Gary1984

Scottex99 said:

Malthusian said:

dunstonh said:

Just bought a some DOT and started Staking it on Kraken. Interest rate (RPY) of about 12%

Starting to sound like a different language.....

"Bought DOT" = "I handed over real money to a crypto bro and he gave me some tokens"

"Staking" = "shuffling punters' money around"

"Interest" = "as long as I don't cash out I get awarded more imaginary tokens"

"Phenomenal compared to savings accounts and mainstream funds" = "I'm gonna get rich quick bro, why aren't you"

As opposed to, "I keep my money in the bank, they lend it out, create all sorts of weird and wonderful products with it, and make 5000x what they pay me interest"?

Nexo pays interest daily, cash out anytime. Celsius weekly fair enough but I've done exactly $1,225 from there since October. Not mega bucks but better than the £3 my bank would have paid me. Can also cash it out right this second if I want

You effectively won a gamble that the value of your tokens didn't crash and a bigger sucker came along to buy them. It's in no way comparable to keeping your money safely in the bank.

Scottex99

Gary1984 said:

Scottex99 said:

Malthusian said:

dunstonh said:

Just bought a some DOT and started Staking it on Kraken. Interest rate (RPY) of about 12%

Starting to sound like a different language.....

"Bought DOT" = "I handed over real money to a crypto bro and he gave me some tokens"

"Staking" = "shuffling punters' money around"

"Interest" = "as long as I don't cash out I get awarded more imaginary tokens"

"Phenomenal compared to savings accounts and mainstream funds" = "I'm gonna get rich quick bro, why aren't you"

As opposed to, "I keep my money in the bank, they lend it out, create all sorts of weird and wonderful products with it, and make 5000x what they pay me interest"?

Nexo pays interest daily, cash out anytime. Celsius weekly fair enough but I've done exactly $1,225 from there since October. Not mega bucks but better than the £3 my bank would have paid me. Can also cash it out right this second if I want

You effectively won a gamble that the value of your tokens didn't crash and a bigger sucker came along to buy them. It's in no way comparable to keeping your money safely in the bank.

Uh no, I'm long on these assets anyway so park them with this firm to earn more coins with my coins. Nothing to do with trading or buying/seling.

Firm in question has $10bn under management, fairly legit I'd say. Counterparty risk could be an issue but during a bull run, not for me. I'll reassess if the market ever corrects more than 50% from here

Gary1984

I'm not suggesting it's an out and out scam but the 'assets' invested in could effectively go to a price of zero. It's good they didn't but it's in no way comparable to depositing £100 say with an FSCS backed bank where you can be 100% certain you'll always get your £100 back. 

Scottex99

Gary1984 said:

I'm not suggesting it's an out and out scam but the 'assets' invested in could effectively go to a price of zero. It's good they didn't but it's in no way comparable to depositing £100 say with an FSCS backed bank where you can be 100% certain you'll always get your £100 back. 

 Like I said, i'm long on these assets anyway. If they go to zero, tough !!!!!! for me. That's irrelevant here. My point is I'm paid 4-14% APY to hold them where I do. 

Do I have an £85k insurance? No? Do I care? No. Insurance will work it's way into the space in time and it already is via certain platforms and protocols.

mark55man

The thing bitcoin reminds me most off is Lloyds of London - where experts and insiders in that thing make money and graciously allowed other people in when they had a need for funds and then closed in and scalped them when the risks came home to roost.  I am not saying there is no use case, I am not saying there is no merit in the system, I am saying that it is a dangerous place for investors accustomed to savings or trackers.  I am also saying that it is a dangerous place for coin investors who are closer to the core.  I think the phrase from the Lloyds management at that point around the many moneyed people they had lead to destitution was "if the Lord had not meant them to be shorn, he would not have made them sheep".  

I am getting my kicks vicariously, through funds investing in coin technology ecosystem funds, so always the bridesmaid not the bride, but I can live with that.  I think what people lambasting coiners don't acknowledge is that from a helicopter view there are many accepted aspects of the investment spectrum that look ridiculous if you came upon it from new - not a great example but something like the housing boom - you buy a house and live in it, it doesn't do anything yet it triples in value in a decade - who is giving this money - how is that a significantly different in principal from BTC.  The risks are different and I think everyone accepts its easier to vanish a coin and that forms the basis of caution, but the accretion of value is similar - they go up because people want them

Gary1984

Well you have a much higher risk tolerance than me! But the risk of them going to zero is relevant *given the original comparison to a standard bank account*.

I still don't get the double digit interest thing and nobody seems able to explain where this comes from. As far as I can tell it can only be through new tokens being created, which if demand for the tokens remains unchanged should reduce the value of each token by a commensurate amount so you'd end up back where you were. 

mark55man

How does vintage wine or art collections accrete value - no more are being created but the value goes up.  Often money can be made by just holding the assets and those on the inside probably have options or futures like mechanisms that can return a fraction (even a 10%) to those willing to trust them with the coins

I don't want to overstate my risk - 5% of my risky pot into Coin related funds.  Not unlike Ruffer, who are hardly f e c k less