Any other Stakers?

thegentleway

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

So these so called “stable coins” are pegged to FIAT currency, e.g. dollar. Doesn’t this completely negate the inflation hedge crypto is allegedly supposed to provide?

Dude, there's 7000 different cryptos, they dont all do the same thing.

I'm not the guy with the degrees, I have a 3rd in general studies but now am the Head of Trading for an OTC desk that trades 100m per month. Late bloomer.

USDT/USDC/DAI/TUSD/PAX/BUSD, all worth a dollar, all slightly different, look them up

Thank you for the advice. I have "looked up" the first you list, which is Tether. Wikipedia starts of with:

"Tether is a controversial cryptocyrrency with tokens issued by Tether Limited. It formerly falsely claimed that each token was backed by one US dollar, but on 14 March 2019 changed the backing to include loans to affiliate companies. The Bitfinex exchange was the subject of a lawsuit by the NY Attorney General of using Tether's funds to cover up $850 million in funds missing since mid-2018. According to the New York Attorney General, "Tether’s claims that its virtual currency was fully backed by U.S. dollars at all times was a lie".

So it's not really worth a dollar is it?

ratechaser

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

So these so called “stable coins” are pegged to FIAT currency, e.g. dollar. Doesn’t this completely negate the inflation hedge crypto is allegedly supposed to provide?

Dude, there's 7000 different cryptos, they dont all do the same thing.

I'm not the guy with the degrees, I have a 3rd in general studies but now am the Head of Trading for an OTC desk that trades 100m per month. Late bloomer.

USDT/USDC/DAI/TUSD/PAX/BUSD, all worth a dollar, all slightly different, look them up

Thank you for the advice. I have "looked up" the first you list, which is Tether. Wikipedia starts of with:

"Tether is a controversial cryptocyrrency with tokens issued by Tether Limited. It formerly falsely claimed that each token was backed by one US dollar, but on 14 March 2019 changed the backing to include loans to affiliate companies. The Bitfinex exchange was the subject of a lawsuit by the NY Attorney General of using Tether's funds to cover up $850 million in funds missing since mid-2018. According to the New York Attorney General, "Tether’s claims that its virtual currency was fully backed by U.S. dollars at all times was a lie".

So it's not really worth a dollar is it?

...gets popcorn and waits for passionate rebuttal of Wikipedia...

thegentleway

underground99 said:

thegentleway said:

So these so called “stable coins” are pegged to FIAT currency, e.g. dollar. Doesn’t this completely negate the inflation hedge crypto is allegedly supposed to provide?

Just like physical commodities (e.g. oil vs gold vs pork bellies), different cryptocoins have different purposes.   You wouldn't look at a tractor or double decker bus or tank and ask, "doesn't the size, weight or gearing completely negate the ability to quickly get around a racetrack, or travel comfortably around the country with the grace, space and pace that a supercharged Jaguar is allegedly supposed to provide?"

Thank you. So the only benefit of a so called "stable coin" is the alledged privacy of payments?

lozzy1965

Interesting post.  I am enjoying listening to both sides of the argument (as someone with no qualifications to speak of at all!)
I think I get that there can be value in - lets say bitcoin, but all crypto - in the same way there is value in - say gold.  Neither are particularly worth anything, unless someone wants to buy them.  And they clearly do want to buy both.  Both have limited supply.
I'm struggling with the "guaranteed returns" though.

lozzy1965

Malthusian said:

Still no explanation about why the bro in New York with his magic money machine that allows him to back a promise to pay real dollars deposited plus 10%pa in real dollars to anyone who wants to cash in their digital dollars doesn't open up his machine to the wider financial markets, who would be queuing round the block.

But if everyone wanted to cash in gold over a short period of time it would become worthless and everyone who hadn't cashed out would be left with worthless gold.  The value is in people regarding it as valuable?

Edit - Apart from the fact that gold can be used to make things of course

Scottex99

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

So these so called “stable coins” are pegged to FIAT currency, e.g. dollar. Doesn’t this completely negate the inflation hedge crypto is allegedly supposed to provide?

Dude, there's 7000 different cryptos, they dont all do the same thing.

I'm not the guy with the degrees, I have a 3rd in general studies but now am the Head of Trading for an OTC desk that trades 100m per month. Late bloomer.

USDT/USDC/DAI/TUSD/PAX/BUSD, all worth a dollar, all slightly different, look them up

Thank you for the advice. I have "looked up" the first you list, which is Tether. Wikipedia starts of with:

"Tether is a controversial cryptocyrrency with tokens issued by Tether Limited. It formerly falsely claimed that each token was backed by one US dollar, but on 14 March 2019 changed the backing to include loans to affiliate companies. The Bitfinex exchange was the subject of a lawsuit by the NY Attorney General of using Tether's funds to cover up $850 million in funds missing since mid-2018. According to the New York Attorney General, "Tether’s claims that its virtual currency was fully backed by U.S. dollars at all times was a lie".

So it's not really worth a dollar is it?

https://cointelegraph.com/news/tether-to-report-reserves-and-pay-18-5m-fine-after-settlement-with-nyag

We trade millions of it every day against GBP/EUR at a price of 1 USD

thegentleway

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

Scottex99 said:

thegentleway said:

So these so called “stable coins” are pegged to FIAT currency, e.g. dollar. Doesn’t this completely negate the inflation hedge crypto is allegedly supposed to provide?

Dude, there's 7000 different cryptos, they dont all do the same thing.

I'm not the guy with the degrees, I have a 3rd in general studies but now am the Head of Trading for an OTC desk that trades 100m per month. Late bloomer.

USDT/USDC/DAI/TUSD/PAX/BUSD, all worth a dollar, all slightly different, look them up

Thank you for the advice. I have "looked up" the first you list, which is Tether. Wikipedia starts of with:

"Tether is a controversial cryptocyrrency with tokens issued by Tether Limited. It formerly falsely claimed that each token was backed by one US dollar, but on 14 March 2019 changed the backing to include loans to affiliate companies. The Bitfinex exchange was the subject of a lawsuit by the NY Attorney General of using Tether's funds to cover up $850 million in funds missing since mid-2018. According to the New York Attorney General, "Tether’s claims that its virtual currency was fully backed by U.S. dollars at all times was a lie".

So it's not really worth a dollar is it?

https://cointelegraph.com/news/tether-to-report-reserves-and-pay-18-5m-fine-after-settlement-with-nyag

We trade millions of it every day against GBP/EUR at a price of 1 USD

The wikipedia article does cover the Feb 2021 $18.5 million settlement for covering up a loss of $850 million... It also states

"Tether Limited has never substantiated their claim of full-backing through a promised audit of their currency reserves"

Malthusian

lozzy1965 said:

Malthusian said:

Still no explanation about why the bro in New York with his magic money machine that allows him to back a promise to pay real dollars deposited plus 10%pa in real dollars to anyone who wants to cash in their digital dollars doesn't open up his machine to the wider financial markets, who would be queuing round the block.

But if everyone wanted to cash in gold over a short period of time it would become worthless and everyone who hadn't cashed out would be left with worthless gold.  The value is in people regarding it as valuable?

Edit - Apart from the fact that gold can be used to make things of course

The value of real dollars is that you can use a dollar to settle a tax bill with the US Government or settle a debt subject to US law. For this value to collapse, the US Government would either have to stop accepting their own currency or turn the printing presses up to 11, in defiance of the fact that the wealth of everyone involved in that decision would collapse as a result. All the reasons the US Government might want to do such a thing, despite it being against their interests and against the interests of everyone in a position of influence, consist of "BUT MUH BLOCKCHAIN!"

The value of the particular digital dollar under discussion is that some bro in NY has pledged that he has enough real dollars in the bank to pay out one real dollar for every digital dollar. To make good on that promise, he needs a money-making machine that generates returns of 10%pa on real dollars after all his costs, to keep pace with the returns being paid on those digital dollars. For the value of that digital dollar to collapse, it only needs to turn out that his machine doesn't exist and he doesn't have enough real dollars in the bank.

If everyone wanted to cash in gold over a short period of time, the game would end, and punters' money in would == punters' money out. Those currently hodling gold would be the last bros standing and would lose all their money, to those who had sold the gold to them. Minus whatever they could recover by selling their gold to electronics manufacturers and jewellers.

Malthusian

thegentleway said:

The wikipedia article does cover the Feb 2021 $18.5 million settlement for covering up a loss of $850 million... It also states

"Tether Limited has never substantiated their claim of full-backing through a promised audit of their currency reserves"

Even funnier:

"Stuart Hoegner, Tether's general counsel said "the bottom line is an audit cannot be obtained. The big four firms are anathema to that level of risk."

This would be the same Big Four that were quite happy to issue clean bills of health to Enron, Carillion, Wirecard, London Capital and Finance, etc etc ad nauseam, without considering it too big a risk. Not to mention that there are loads of other accountancy firms in the USA and the wider world. But yeah, counting up a load of corporate bank accounts and confirming that the total dollar value is equal to or greater than the number of Tether in circulation is clearly too complicated for billion-dollar accounting groups.