Any other Stakers?

User232002

Ding Ding. Finally someone gets it. Well done sir.

underground99 said:

The question is just whether the return is always going to be 'perfectly sustainable' and whether it's really true that you can definitely get your money back if things go south.

Reasonable points.

I do believe the second will always be the case. Gemini is so deeply embedded within the crypto ecosystem and its fully backed so I cant ever see a reason for them to not pay out those reserves, especially given that they essentially make money from people trading those representations around. Its basically a free money tree for them so long as they continue to keep it going by being honest and allowing people to redeem their claims on the reserves they have provided them with. That said, part of the reason USDC commands a higher premium than say USDT is because of some nuances around this.

Regarding the first, you are probably correct. Over time as more liquidity comes in to the system, these rates will decrease. That is a natural consequence of supply and demand dynamics and will play out over the next few years. I used the term 'sustainable' in the sense that the rate is coming from a legitimate source and it could continue indefinitely, because I feel that the general (incorrect) perception amongst people here is that a 10% return on something that is analogous to a savings account is fantasy stuff.

User232002

Malthusian said:

darren232002 said:

Flatulentoldgoat said:

e same amount of real money.

Again, I'll say this slowly so you understand. You can buy digital dollars, pegged to the value of a dollar and ALWAYS worth exactly $1. You can put these away and get 10%+ interest paid on it IN DOLLARS. You can cash it out at any time. The account is always denominated in dollars and if you use USDC is fully backed by actual dollar reserves in a NY based company. Zero exposure to 'imaginary tokens' or asset price swings. Do you understand now?

Providing that when I want to cash out, there are still enough people willing to hand over 1 real dollar (that I can use to pay my US taxes or settle a US debt) for every 1 of my digital dollars.

If some bro in New York takes in X amount of real dollars, there is no guarantee that he can generate enough returns that he will always have enough real dollars to pay everyone X + 10%pa when they want to cash out, after accounting for all his costs. Otherwise everyone would be investing in his bank, not just crypto bros.

Punters' money in == punters' money out.

Wow. Apparently saying it slowly was still too fast.

Your repeated statement is incorrect because this is not a closed system. I'm not really sure you'll ever get this though so I'm just going to leave it.

Thrugelmir

darren232002 said:

Haha. I understand its easier to bury your head in the sand than actually try to understand how these returns are perfectly sustainable and come from legitimate use cases.

Only suckers believe in a world that gives out free lunches. Takes two to trade. Somebody else wants your money. 

Malthusian

darren232002 said:

Wow. Apparently saying it slowly was still too fast.

Your repeated statement is incorrect because this is not a closed system. I'm not really sure you'll ever get this though so I'm just going to leave it.

Apparently it was. In the absence of value being added on actual goods and services being sold to a retail market, generating sufficient profits to allow some bro in New York to guarantee that punters can cash out their original investment plus 10% per year in actual dollars, punters' money in == punters' money out.

Making a closed system more complicated does not make it into an open system.

Flatulentoldgoat

Crypto is a big 'scam' according to the Boomer friend I know. There's no way to convince him otherwise. I suspect the real reason is because he's sore he missed out on the whole investment opportunity.

I'm sure he'd fit in here perfectly.

User232002

Malthusian said:

darren232002 said:

Wow. Apparently saying it slowly was still too fast.

Your repeated statement is incorrect because this is not a closed system. I'm not really sure you'll ever get this though so I'm just going to leave it.

Apparently it was. In the absence of value being added on actual goods and services being sold to a retail market, generating sufficient profits to allow some bro in New York to guarantee that punters can cash out their original investment plus 10% per year in actual dollars, punters' money in == punters' money out.

Making a closed system more complicated does not make it into an open system.

Haha. Value is being added and a service is being provided, its just that you don't know how or what it is.

Flatulentoldgoat said:

Crypto is a big 'scam' according to the Boomer friend I know. There's no way to convince him otherwise. I suspect the real reason is because he's sore he missed out on the whole investment opportunity.

I'm sure he'd fit in here perfectly.

There is a lot of truth in this. Reduce the whole crypto ecosystem to gamblers, idiots & tulips and you can retain 'status' as a superior investor whilst your bonds get 1.7% and lose to inflation. The saltiness is real.

At this point, if you have no crypto exposure you have to acknowledge that its a $2 trillion asset class that plenty of otherwise intellectual, quantitative and successful people are investing in. History is littered with cautionary tales of dogmatic decision making. You need to factor the risk that you are wrong on the big questions and ask; what if? 

Gary1984

The 10% interest on a coin pegged to USD is certainly a scam. Where's this interest come from? That's not been satisfactorily answered

User232002

As I have said, it comes from a very legitimate and sustainable use case. But I'm not doing everything for you.

Also, 10% is the low hanging fruit. With a bit of savvy you can get 100%+ with all assets and earnings paid in USD denominated stablecoins.

whatstheplan

darren232002 said:

To the naysayers, if you aren't in the crypto world right now then the next 5 years is going to be a pretty painful one for you in terms of returns. 

I'm not a crypto basher, indeed I'm still toying with putting some money into BTC if the price drops   However I'm not sure I agree with your assertion.  It implies the crypto world is going to see decent returns over the next 5 years but the rest of the investment world isn't?

User232002

whatstheplan said:

darren232002 said:

To the naysayers, if you aren't in the crypto world right now then the next 5 years is going to be a pretty painful one for you in terms of returns. 

I'm not a crypto basher, indeed I'm still toying with putting some money into BTC if the price drops   However I'm not sure I agree with your assertion.  It implies the crypto world is going to see decent returns over the next 5 years but the rest of the investment world isn't?

Bitcoin has a 230% CAGR and is nearing the stage where its adoption curve goes vertical.

The old school investment world still believes in 60/40 and bonds are paying 1.7% which doesn't even beat inflation.