Storage heater alternative.... Infrared vs lpg vs Air source heat pump

Cardew

My view is that any information posted in a thread may be of interest to other readers not just the OP.

For instance whilst I had taken a keen interest in Heat Pumps a few years ago, I was unaware of the RHI requirements for monitoring input and output.

Reed_Richards

Cardew said:

... I was unaware of the RHI requirements for monitoring input and output.

That may be because there is no RHI requirement to monitor input and output - except under less usual circumstances, for example if you have a second major heat source (for example an oil boiler/ASHP hybrid).  There is now an RHI requirement to have an input electricity meter fitted but you are at liberty to ignore the readings it provides.  

matelodave

Cardew said:

My view is that any information posted in a thread may be of interest to other readers not just the OP.

For instance whilst I had taken a keen interest in Heat Pumps a few years ago, I was unaware of the RHI requirements for monitoring input and output.

I got my RHI as soon as it was launched around about April 2014 (three years after I got my heatpump - Sept 2010) and then it was based on a deemed COP of 2.5 unless you had heatmeters and other stuff. The rules have be "refined" a lot since then as have all the MCS requirements and so it's not ever so easy to keep up to date (unless you really need or want to).

In the same way newer heatpumps have now got better inbuilt monitoring and data recording facilities which give people a better idea of how they are performing and helps with refining adjustments and otimising eperformance. I belive some can be monitored over the internet if required - as mine is nigh on eleven years old it's controls are fairly basic and pretty cumbersome compared with more modern graphical based controls.

I've been getting RHi since it's inception in 2014 and get my final payment next week making a grand total of £5028.89 which has gone a long way towards the £7.5k cos (ignoring inflation). I would have had to get a boiler of some sort (LPG or oil) so the cost just about balances out and I reckon it's probably cost around the same to run as oil and a lot less than LPG so I'm pretty happy  I also have the benefit of not having a ginormous tank in the garden nor do I have to sort out deliveries

Cardew

Reed_Richards said:

Cardew said:

... I was unaware of the RHI requirements for monitoring input and output.

That may be because there is no RHI requirement to monitor input and output - except under less usual circumstances, for example if you have a second major heat source (for example an oil boiler/ASHP hybrid).  There is now an RHI requirement to have an input electricity meter fitted but you are at liberty to ignore the readings it provides. 

Earlier post:

'Yes.  Anyone claiming RHI now requires a meter than measures the power drawn by the heat pump.  It's a regular electricity meter but just on the one circuit.'

 Please note I said 'RHI requirements for monitoring input --'

Would you have been happier if I had said 'RHI requirements to fit a meter but you don't have to look at it'?

Or 'I was unaware of what was required in a heat pump installation for those intending to claim RHI'

Reed_Richards

Cardew said:

Would you have been happier if I had said 'RHI requirements to fit a meter but you don't have to look at it'?

I know it seems perverse but that is the truth of the matter.

ispookie666

Very informative thread and thank you to everyone who contributed.  
This is my own experience, we moved into a 4 bed property which was poorly insulated and has a 30 year old Oil boiler.  We have kind of sorted the insulation and the oil boiler has had a service, the engineer said it just keeps working (touch wood).  
The last few months I have had quotes for a new oil boiler (there is no chance of getting gas).  

The options for us 
1. New oil boiler 
2. Ground source heat pump - GSHP
3. Air source heat pump -ASHP
4. New Boiler + Inverter Air conditioner (similar to Air source heat pump)
5. Keep the old boiler + Inverter Air conditioner 

After running a lot of math and numbers for both capital and ongoing running costs

It would take me around 10 years to break even after installing a new boiler (not factored any repairs) this is assuming the current boiler is 60% efficient and the new one is 90%.  

GSHP and ASHP will not reach break even in 15 years(RHI including)! By year 10 GSHP will be cheaper than ASHP over the life (not factored in any repairs)  

New Boiler + Inverter AC will be a lot cheaper than GSHP +ASHP over the life.  

I'll be starting off with adding an Inverter AC and then changing our boiler. 

I'd rather have two sources of heating, you never know when the oil in the tank runs out!

Cardew

By inverter Air conditioning you mean Air to Air heat pump I assume??

Reed_Richards

Heat pumps are most efficient when the temperature difference between what they are heating and the heat source is as small as possible.  So an air-to-air heat pump (which is essentially a modern air conditioner run in heating mode) that heats air to the room temperature you want will be more efficient than an air-to-water heat pump where the water has to be 15 C or more hotter than the room temperature.  The problem is that unless your house has ducts that can distribute warm air throughout the house then you would need one unit per room.  But if you have a large open-plan area then a hybrid system using an air-to-air unit to heat that and an oil boiler to heat the hot water and the rest of the house might well be an economic solution.

I looked at GSHPs but because I do not own a paddock I would have had to drill boreholes and that skewed the cost benefit very much towards the ASHP..

Cardew

Can you please explain how you have calculated that having two heating systems is the best option.

As indicated above a Air to Air heat pump to cope with a 4 bed property will be expensive to install and no cheaper to run than Oil CH. ; In fact more expensive as you have to heat water using an immersion heater.

If your main heating system is oil and it breaks down, you can always use £10 fan heaters until the boiler is repaired/replaced. Surely this is a cheaper option than a large capital expenditure on the heat pump used as a 'reserve' heating system??

ispookie666

Cardew said:

Can you please explain how you have calculated that having two heating systems is the best option.

As indicated above a Air to Air heat pump to cope with a 4 bed property will be expensive to install and no cheaper to run than Oil CH. ; In fact more expensive as you have to heat water using an immersion heater.

If your main heating system is oil and it breaks down, you can always use £10 fan heaters until the boiler is repaired/replaced. Surely this is a cheaper option than a large capital expenditure on the heat pump used as a 'reserve' heating system??

I discounted the ASHP and GSHP after I worked out the math, I'm not a super eco freak to burn money to get these installed, also electricity prices are going only one way!  

I was left with Oil - So definitely will be installing a new boiler, but will wait for a bit.  

Inverter AC made sense as we needed cooling, the house has a lot, I mean a lot of glass doors.  This made it the obvious choice for installation.  

I plan to use the Inverter AC (Air to Air heat pump) during winter to have some heating in a few rooms, when the oil heating is not on.  
Also, I wanted a backup heating - you never know when the heating oil might run out or deliveries are affected (had to wait 3 weeks for my most recent oil delivery!) or the boiler breaks.  

Ducting would be ideal, but not necessary if the rooms have external walls and aesthetics are ok.  We're getting 2.5Kw x 2 for the bed rooms and 7.1Kw for the living room.  

More than happy to share the excel file.