Storage heater alternative.... Infrared vs lpg vs Air source heat pump

Reed_Richards

I switched from a condensing oil boiler that I inherited with the property and ran for two years to an ASHP at the beginning of December 2020.  I have used anywhere between 12 and 60 kWh per day, depending on the outside temperature.  Given that we are moving into summer now (or should be) I anticipate a marginal saving over my oil running costs, although it is too early to be sure.  I need to average about 20 kWh per day over the entire year to beat oil on running costs and my current average is 37 kWh per day.  

Mickey666

Reed_Richards said:

Mickey666 said:

....Seems to me that a badly insulated, draughty house is EXACTLY the sort of property that should be using low carbon or renewable energy...

I think the idea is that draughts and poor insulation can be fixed relatively easily and that does more towards saving the planet than your choice of fuel.  

might well be the thinking but I'm not convinced.  If burning fossil fuel is bad then burning less because of better insulation is still bad whereas renewables presumably do no harm at all.

If I could have got grants and/or payments for a renewable heating system in my old listed house then it might have stopped me getting a mains gas system installed instead, but the EPC rating was against it.  Given the age of the UK housing stock, I don't think I'm alone.

lohr500

I'm sure you are not alone Mickey666.
And what will happen when larger households all migrate to electric cars with their demands on the same domestic supply that is struggling to keep pace with a hungry ASHP demand in these older properties? 

lohr500

Reed_Richards said:

I switched from a condensing oil boiler that I inherited with the property and ran for two years to an ASHP at the beginning of December 2020.  I have used anywhere between 12 and 60 kWh per day, depending on the outside temperature.  Given that we are moving into summer now (or should be) I anticipate a marginal saving over my oil running costs, although it is too early to be sure.  I need to average about 20 kWh per day over the entire year to beat oil on running costs and my current average is 37 kWh per day.  

Touch and go then!! Hopefully as we get into summer, the scales will tip in your favour.

Another concern for me was the long term reliability of the ASHP hardware and the cost to maintain it. If I get 10 years out of my new 26/36kW external oil boiler, it will have cost circa £250 pa in depreciation, plus say £80 pa to have it serviced. It has a 10 year warranty.

Are there any annual servicing costs associated with ASHP and what is the likely life expectancy/warranty period?

Gerry1

lohr500 said:

And what will happen when larger households all migrate to electric cars with their demands on the same domestic supply that is struggling to keep pace with a hungry ASHP demand in these older properties? 

You'll wake up to find the house is cold because your Load Limiting Smart Meter Says NO, and you won't be able to go anywhere because it refused to let your EV charge up ! 

lohr500

Oh, what a delightful future we have in store!!!!
Might have to resort to burning our furniture in the open fires to keep warm and to boil a pan of potato soup, and ditching the car for a horse and cart to get to the shops.  

Gerry1

lohr500 said:

Oh, what a delightful future we have in store!!!!
Might have to resort to burning our furniture in the open fires to keep warm and to boil a pan of potato soup, and ditching the car for a horse and cart to get to the shops.  

They'll probably ban horses - all that methane they emit... 

Reed_Richards

Our oil boiler was installed in 2012 and was unreliable, we had to maintain a service contract and had to call-out an engineer at least once a year.  The annual fee, if we had renewed this year, would have been £258.  But it was worth it, we had to replace the pump earlier in 2020.  So in my experience "£80 pa to have it serviced" is wildly optimistic.  Remember the cost of replacement parts as well as labour.

Reed_Richards

My LG ASHP has a 7 year warranty.  My installer will perform an annual service at a cost of £150.  I'm not sure how necessary this is but an annual inspection of any pressurised water tank is mandatory, whatever is heating your water.

coffeehound

lohr500 said:

Another concern for me was the long term reliability of the ASHP hardware and the cost to maintain it. 

That is (was) an advantage of the old dumb night storage heaters and immersion heater tank -- all super simple and possible to maintain by the householder.  I wonder how much of the complicated tech ever justifies its own carbon footprint.