Speeding - fines - court

TooManyPoints

The car is on a PCP deal

I haven't read back through all of this, but are you the registered keeper? That is, do you hold the V5C registration document and are all your details correctly shown on it?

There's all sorts of stuff on the web, some of which is misleading and some is simply wrong. Assuming you are the RK and you received a NIP and s172 request beyond 14 days, you cannot "reject" them.  The NIP is simply a notice - it's not for you to accept or reject. It is only the first NIP which is subject to the 14 day time limit. That limit is 14 calendar days, no allowance is made for weekends or Bank Holidays and the date of the offence is Day 0. So if the alleged offence occurred on 20th March your NIP should be served on you by Saturday 3rd April. The s172 notice is a request for driver's details and it has no time limit. You must respond to it regardless of any issues you have with the timeliness of the NIP or the speeding offence itself. If you fail to do so you commit a separate offence which carries six points, a hefty fine and an endorsement code - MS90 - which will cripple your insurance premiums for up to five years.

If your NIP is served late you will have to reject any offers of a course or Fixed Penalty and allow the matter to proceed to court. You will have to enter a Not Guilty pea on the basis that you were not served with a NIP within the required 14 days (Road Traffic Offenders' Act, s1). Here comes the tricky bit. The notice is presumed to have been served two working days after posting unless the contrary can be proved. If the police provide proof to the court that it was posted in time, you have to provide the proof that it wasn't served in time. It is notoriously difficult to prove that something didn't happen, especially it didn't happen at all. If it was delivered late you may be able to get the assistance of your postie (if you happen to be in when it is delivered, if he waits whilst you open it and if he agrees to give evidence that he witnessed you opening it). If it wasn't delivered at all, all you can do is provide your own evidence to that effect and hope they believe you.

The cost of failure in court is high. You will pay an extra 50% by way of a fine but you will also pay prosecution costs which are usually £620.

AdrianC

Arsenal2019 said:

AdrianC said:

Arsenal2019 said:

The car is on a PCP deal

Are you the registered keeper, with the V5C in your possession, with your name and address on?

Might be a silly answer... but I’m not sure. I presume I would when they gave me all the paperwork when I signed for the finance and took the vehicle ? I guess I’ll have to dig out all paperwork and have a look for a definite answer 

Who taxes the car? Do you get reminders from DVLA?

Arsenal2019

TooManyPoints said:

The car is on a PCP deal

I haven't read back through all of this, but are you the registered keeper? That is, do you hold the V5C registration document and are all your details correctly shown on it?

There's all sorts of stuff on the web, some of which is misleading and some is simply wrong. Assuming you are the RK and you received a NIP and s172 request beyond 14 days, you cannot "reject" them.  The NIP is simply a notice - it's not for you to accept or reject. It is only the first NIP which is subject to the 14 day time limit. That limit is 14 calendar days, no allowance is made for weekends or Bank Holidays and the date of the offence is Day 0. So if the alleged offence occurred on 20th March your NIP should be served on you by Saturday 3rd April. The s172 notice is a request for driver's details and it has no time limit. You must respond to it regardless of any issues you have with the timeliness of the NIP or the speeding offence itself. If you fail to do so you commit a separate offence which carries six points, a hefty fine and an endorsement code - MS90 - which will cripple your insurance premiums for up to five years.

If your NIP is served late you will have to reject any offers of a course or Fixed Penalty and allow the matter to proceed to court. You will have to enter a Not Guilty pea on the basis that you were not served with a NIP within the required 14 days (Road Traffic Offenders' Act, s1). Here comes the tricky bit. The notice is presumed to have been served two working days after posting unless the contrary can be proved. If the police provide proof to the court that it was posted in time, you have to provide the proof that it wasn't served in time. It is notoriously difficult to prove that something didn't happen, especially it didn't happen at all. If it was delivered late you may be able to get the assistance of your postie (if you happen to be in when it is delivered, if he waits whilst you open it and if he agrees to give evidence that he witnessed you opening it). If it wasn't delivered at all, all you can do is provide your own evidence to that effect and hope they believe you.

The cost of failure in court is high. You will pay an extra 50% by way of a fine but you will also pay prosecution costs which are usually £620.

Okay. So I will fill out and compete the 172 as soon as it arrives.

The bit I don’t understand is how on earth I can prove that something has not been delivered or been delivered late. There’s literally nothing I can do as there’s no dated stamps on any envelopes

Whaaaaat?! So if I did receive the letter later, and I went non guilty due to receiving late. I would have to pay an extra 50% and £620 on top?!?!?

Surely I don’t have a leg to stand on then, even if the NIP comes through the post 1 month or more later?!

Arsenal2019

AdrianC said:

Arsenal2019 said:

AdrianC said:

Arsenal2019 said:

The car is on a PCP deal

Are you the registered keeper, with the V5C in your possession, with your name and address on?

Might be a silly answer... but I’m not sure. I presume I would when they gave me all the paperwork when I signed for the finance and took the vehicle ? I guess I’ll have to dig out all paperwork and have a look for a definite answer 

Who taxes the car? Do you get reminders from DVLA?

I tax the car. I get reminders through the post from
DVLA

GrumpyDil

So if you get the reminders that means the car is registered in your name at your address, which removes any delay caused by sending it to your finance company.

All you can do now is wait and see if anything turns up and deal with it. 

TooManyPoints

I tax the car. I get reminders through the post from DVLA

Do they come directly from the DVLA and not via the finance Co? Do you hold the V5C and is it in your name? (Sorry, I don't know how PCP works, but if you want a definitive answer to this my last question is the only way to establish whether you are the RK). 

Yes the "late NIP" defence is notoriously difficult to run. But that's how it is. You get a one third discount on your fine if you plead guilty and will pay only £85 costs. That's what makes the cost of failure so high.

Arsenal2019

Will I have been given a V5C form? I got the car brand new from the store (financed)? Or is this something that I have to apply for?
I don’t see this been an issues as I’ve already had two speeding fines in the post in the last few years?

surely if I have received this paperwork in the past, this would mean that I am the registered keeper ??

Arsenal2019

This is only document I can find ?

GrumpyDil

Yes that's a V5C as can be seen by the letters above the blacked out section top left. 

TooManyPoints

Then provided your details are all shown correctly on it the first NIP should be served on you within 14 days. If you haven't got it by now you have the makings of a defence (albeit a difficult one to run).

Of course, looking back at the beginning of this, you don't actually know whether you have been detected speeding at all.