PCN from Sep '20

ToSortPCN

Hello,
Thank you for taking the time to read over this.  I have found the information on this forum most helpful as I negotiate this situation...
Last September, as the keeper of a vehicle I received a PCN from National Parking Enforcement Ltd for an alleged "failure to correctly register vehicle or pay for parking".  The car was parked for around 40 minutes one evening in the car park named on the letter, from around 7.50pm.  This was outside the apparent paid hours of the car park, which I understand was up to 7pm.  There was no barrier preventing entry to the car park after 7pm or to the best of my knowledge any signage stating parking was prohibited after 7pm, only that overnight parking was prohibited.  Overnight parking to my understanding would be until the following morning, and in any case that's not the alleged infringement.

As advised in the Newbies thread, I appealed within a few days via their given appeal form, using the text provided:
"I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it."

Their response stated that they were "unable to cancel the PCN as it was issued correctly".  Their contention is that "as per the signage on site, the vehicle's full and correct vehicle registration must be entered into the machine" and my VRN wasn't entered.  They supplied a list of partial VRNs from their machine (which didn't include mine) and a number of CCTV screen grabs, but no photographs of the sign(s) in question.  Interestingly, the list of VRNs showed nothing after 7pm on the date in question, which seems to suggest it may not be possible to pay for parking or enter a VRN after 7pm.

Since receiving their response, I have ignored subsequent letters again as advised in the Newbies thread.  There was one more from National Parking Enforcement Ltd, two from TNC Collections, and another a few weeks ago from NPE.  Then I received 2 letters dated 7th March from Credit Investigation Services (UK) on the same day, both stating "Risk of Legal Action", both referencing NPE's reference number but referring to different dated letters from NPE (both wrong, incidentally).  I have ignored all these, but received another today from CIS stating "Notice of Legal Action".

Is this now the point where I need to pay attention?

The Newbies thread says,

"If you have a 'Letter of claim' or Letter Before Claim (LBC), a claim IS likely. I mean a 'real' LBC with a 30 day deadline and reply forms."

Does this latest letter constitute that?  It says, "In view of the circumstances I see no option but to give notice that unless payment is received within the next seven days I intend to recommend that Court proceedings be commenced against you."  Does that mean it's a 'Letter Before Claim'?

Thank you again for taking the time to read over this, and sorry if I'm jumping the gun before having to taking this more seriously.  I would welcome any replies from folks way more knowledgeable about the process than me!

Redx

7 days means nothing at all

30 days notice plus inclusion of financial forms is a real LBC

Nothing to stop you sending a SAR to the DPO at the PPC npe to obtain all your data attaching a copy of the V5C log book as proof of I D under the GDPR law to obtain all your data

Forewarned is forearmed

Fruitcake

The scammers are not obliged to provide you with images of the signs unless and until a court claim has recahed the Witness Statements and Exhibits stage.
If possible, get pics of the site and signage. Google Streetview is often  a useful tool, even if the car only went past the entrance rather than went in.

I think you have done everything right so far. You have obviously read the NEWBIES and followed the guidance there. Scammers lie and deceive, so asking for clarification of something now is the right thing to do.

As Redx has advised, the letter from CIS is not a LBC, but you may well get a real one in the near future.
It won't hurt for you to have a look at the guide to court written by bargepole that you will find in the second post of the NEWBIES in case a court claim does arrive in the next five and a half years.
This assumes the keeper lives in England or Wales.

If you tell us the location of the alleged event, the regulars might be able to tell you if it has cropped up here before. Doing a forum search might help as well.

ToSortPCN

Thank you both for your replies.  It does get the heart pumping a little each time a new letter arrives.  I'll have a read over the SAR thread and most likely send one.

The location is the same one mentioned in this thread: [I can't post links, it's a thread called "National Parking Enforcement Ltd", started 18th May 2019].  The car park is Hemsby Westbank Beach Road (the one near the karting centre, not the one by the beach).  It was upon doing a Google search of the car park name back in September that I found that thread and by extension the Newbies thread and the rest of this forum. 

I'm not local to there so have had no way of going to check the signs since receiving the notices, and while Google Street View shows signage that imagery was taken in October 2018 so I can't be sure that's the same as when my car was parked there.

In that other thread it looks like its author may still be at a similar stage to me.  

Fruitcake

This one. I remember that place/thread. Again, well done on your research so far. It helps us immensely when posters do this before posting.

22 Beach Rd - Google Maps

Le_Kirk

There is no thread called that on that date (or at least I cannot find it) there is one from 17th May 2019.  If you find it again post the link as a broken link such as hxxps://.................. and we can fix it for you.

ToSortPCN

That's the one.  Thanks you for posting the link - makes it a bit easier for anyone else to read in the future. 

ToSortPCN

Le_Kirk said:

There is no thread called that on that date (or at least I cannot find it) there is one from 17th May 2019.  If you find it again post the link as a broken link such as hxxps://.................. and we can fix it for you.

Sorry, you're right it was started on the 17th May, but that will be the one.  I was looking at the top of page 2 when I read the 18th.

nosferatu1001

 I intend to recommend 
Such weasel words. 
Absolutely not a LBC. A LBC has certainty - they will commence legal action. 

Fruitcake

ToSortPCN said:

Le_Kirk said:

There is no thread called that on that date (or at least I cannot find it) there is one from 17th May 2019.  If you find it again post the link as a broken link such as hxxps://.................. and we can fix it for you.

Sorry, you're right it was started on the 17th May, but that will be the one.  I was looking at the top of page 2 when I read the 18th.

There are two with that title and date, but neither appear to be for this car park.

As requested, please post a link to the thread, but change https to hxxps.

ToSortPCN

Fruitcake said:

ToSortPCN said:

Le_Kirk said:

There is no thread called that on that date (or at least I cannot find it) there is one from 17th May 2019.  If you find it again post the link as a broken link such as hxxps://.................. and we can fix it for you.

Sorry, you're right it was started on the 17th May, but that will be the one.  I was looking at the top of page 2 when I read the 18th.

There are two with that title and date, but neither appear to be for this car park.

As requested, please post a link to the thread, but change https to hxxps.

Ah, OK.  Sorry I hadn't realised that.  It's this one: hiips://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6002880/national-parking-enforcement-ltd/p1