Ccj and defence

D_P_Dance

Some more reading,  

https://maternityaction.org.uk/advice/breastfeeding-in-public-places/

shortysky

Yeah seemed like they didn’t even read it! But it wasn’t the most professional appeal to be honest. It was rushed. And didn’t do no research before hand. Yes I have had a look at them and saved them in a file for my witness statement, as to late for the defence now. Will start writing  Witness statement soon. As I have some time to get it as good as possible. Thank you for the information!

shortysky

D_P_Dance said:

Some more reading,  

Thank you will save the link and go through it all soon. Use it in my witness statement if possible. Won’t let me post with the link so had to remove it. 

Coupon-mad

Your pictures show what looks to any driver like the public highway (a Council road) with no prominent signs and no signage posts beside the kerb.  From your last photo you absolutely cannot see any signs whatsoever and would have no idea you are on 'private land' in my opinion.  That is your main defence - the lack of clear signs, and the fact there is no way a driver can be deemed to have agreed to pay £100 (or the extortionate £182) because where on earth did they have fair opportunity to read that unexpected contract on a road. 

It's not as if you drove into a car park, past a clear entrance sign.  This is a trap, IMHO and I think a Judge would agree if you concentrate on that. 

Breastfeeding is waaay down the list because the PPC didn't know that, and if they had had very clear signs then that wouldn't have given you a right to park for free and breastfeed, if you see what I mean.  So, it is all about the signs, and probably all about the lack of landowner authority as a second main point. 

CEL are notorious for having the contract in the wrong name 'Creative Car Parks' instead of Civil Enforcement, and they don't like showing the landowner contracts in court cases, they'd rather discontinue.

I reckon they will discontinue after they see your witness statement and evidence, concentrating on the signage and the landowner authority issues.  You will need pictures taken in the same darkness conditions if it was dark. 

shortysky

Coupon-mad said:

Your pictures show what looks to any driver like the public highway (a Council road) with no prominent signs and no signage posts beside the kerb.  From your last photo you absolutely cannot see any signs whatsoever and would have no diea you are on 'private land' in my opinion.  That is your main defence - the lack of clear signs, and the fact there is no way a driver can be deemed to have agreed to pay £100 (or the extortionate £182) because where on earth did they have fair opportunity to read that unexpected contract on a road. 

It's not as if you drove into a car park, past a clear entrance sign.  This is a trap, IMHO and I think a Judge would agree if you concentrate on that.  Breastfeedin is waaay down the list because the PPC didn't know that, and if they had had very clear signs then that wouldn't have given you a right to park for free and breastfeed, if you see what I mean.  So, it is all about the signs, and probably all about the lack of landowner authority as a second main point. 

CEL are notorious for having the contract in the wrong name 'Creative Car Parks' instead of Civil Enforcement, and they don't like showing the landowner contracts in court cases, they'd rather discontinue.

I reckon they will discontinue after they see your witness statement and evidence, concentrating on the signage and the landowner authority issues.  You will need pictures taken in the same darkness conditions if it was dark. 

Hi yes that’s what I assumed at the time, that it was like just a normal council road. And if they did have a sign on the grass Ona pole at the front of that entrance then so many people wouldn’t have been caught out on it. The sign that’s close to the entrance is small low down and easily hidden when that road is full! The only worry I have is the sign at the side of pizza express. But as I parked at the end I would of missed it even in day time. On the first image on the google maps view that’s not my post. There is a street light. The picture I took was at the same time of night but obviously not in December. When it would be darker. The breastfeeding was the reason I was in pizza express and for so long that’s all, it’s not the excuse. Me not seeing signs is the reason I feel it’s wrong. It also has nothing about price at all for a Parking charge. 

I don’t know if showing examples in my witness statement, of other signs like entering a council car park, it’s on a big pole as soon as you enter. 

Umkomaas

You need your own photographs, taken in roughly the same light conditions (not the same time) as those in play at the time. Given that days are now becoming longer, you'll need to go there much later than the time of the actual parking event.  At 6pm on 9th December (the parking event start time) it would have been dark, so you'll need to go there much later in the day (evening) now to take your pics. 

Coupon-mad

As U says, your WS needs pictures in the same level of darkness (not the time time of night, because in Summer it's lighter).

It doesn't help to include irrelevant photos of Council signs because that's not what was or wasn't at this site.

Fruitcake

I've had a look on GSV, and whilst there is nothing covering December 2019, there are some earlier images that I think will help. I'm off to play in my workshop this avo, but I hope to have come up with a series of photos for you by tomorrow morning.

Fruitcake

Pease will you confirm two things. In a previous post, you said the car was parked where you were standing in the last photo of that post.
I think this was directly outside and adjacent to Pizza Express in the same position as the white car in this photo.



Is this correct, and do the scammers have photos of the car parked in that position?

Umkomaas

Don't forget when you take those night-time photos, do them without flash so it's as near to how you would have seen them at the time. 

But, also do some using flash, so we can read the actual wording on the signs.