Money Claim - Going Court for Private Parking PCN

bergkamp10

ignavia said:

The "Land Controller" "Confirmation of Authority" is dated 11 Feb 2019, over a year before the event, 13 Feb 2020. You might want to aver that CEL had no authority in 2020, and put them to strict proof that they did.

The "map" is quite a work of art.

Yeah, it's dated almost a year before hand. Not sure if we put them to strict proof in the defence we submitted tbh. It was a while ago. Should we do this in the WS stage? I think we have another week left before it needs to be submitted.

Jenni_D said:

The landowner agreement is not a contract. It may also be "after the fact" ... what was the alleged parking contravention date? (It's not obvious from the first page of posts in this thread).

That "map" looks like it's been drawn by a child ... it is utterly meaningless. 🙄 All it is is a rectangle with one side partially missing, a red coloured "L" shape (denoting what?), and some letters positioned on it. It gives no scale, gives no indication that it actually relates to the relevant car park, and provides no proof whatsoever that said signs even existed, nor what they showed.

Alleged contravention date was in Feb 2020.  I think their proof if the photos of the signs they took but even those were dated a year before in Feb 2019.

If you look at the photo of the map and the photos of the scene, they were all dated on the same date and within 15 mins of each other which leads me to believe they were doctored. What are the odds they inspected the site at 5:43pm and managed to get the map drawn up and printed by 5:50pm same day? Looks dodgy.

Coupon-mad

It does, but isn’t the main easy point that a Judge might like, the fact that the £100 is positively buried in crowded, non bold small grey print text on that sign and there are no images at all of what the signs look like near the point of sale, at the PDT machines?

Your point here should be that there was no possibility of knowing about or agreeing to any £100 charge.  The machines listed the tariffs and you paid those tariffs in good faith, 3 times to extend the stay.  

Even if there were a few minutes’ gap between payments, unless the driver has seem prominent terms about £100, the driver cannot be said to have agreed to that term by the conduct of parking and paying tariffs x 3.  Clearly you didn’t intend to breach any terms otherwise you wouldn’t have paid at all.

But even if the sums paid when taken together, didn’t span the entire time on site (including arrival and leaving time in moving traffic) you STILL did not know about £100 being the risk so you didn’t agree and can’t be bound by it after the event.

When paying x 3 times that day, there was no sign at all that informed you prominently, or at all, about any other punitive fee or tariff.  £100 wasn’t on the machines nor on the hourly  tariff list which is in large bold font - as such it fails the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which requires terms, particularly onerous ones, to be prominent.

The CRA 2015 is not the same as the old UTCCRS despite Judges jumping to the conclusion that they are the same.

The requirement for terms to be ‘prominent’ is new in 2015 (following an appalling decision by the Supreme Court about small print in banking terms) and so is the requirement for consumer notices (signs) to be fair and transparent and prominent, not just ‘terms’.

I’m just not seeing any sign with £100 in ‘big’ - are you?

That’s a nice easy one for the Judge.  That’s why the NEWBIES thread tips about what evidence to send with a WS include putting the yellow and black Beavis case sign next to the sign in evidence and point out how obvious the £85 was in the Beavis sign.

bergkamp10

Hey everyone, so I managed to get my friend to go back to the site to take some additional photos for the WS to help me help him prepare it. I have drafted the following for him using the information generously provided by everyone here (special thanks to Coupon, Jenni and Ignavia) as well as the WS template from the newbies thread. 

I've tailored it to fit in to the defence we prepared earlier as well as the facts of the case. However I am undure whether to keep the bit about the para 198 of the beavis case as it is specifically talking about overstaying and charging as a deterrent and it seems CEL are claiming that whilst my friend paid, he overstayed so is liable for the £100 charge. I don't want to include it and have it backfire and used against him.

Also in the costs claim, as he is a student and currently not working, I don't know if he is allowed to claim that £95. Additionally the costs relating to the hours of research etc, I believe we have put in many more than 16 hours but kept the number to that amount just to be on the safe side.

Regarding the printing, postage etc costs, I have kept it also the same. I know there we have the receipt for the signed special delivery that time he posted to CEL but will we have to bring receipts/bank statements for the others? I paid for internet usage and printing at the internet cafe so it'll be on my card in that case rather than his.

Aside from this any comments or feedback would be appreciated before I get my friend to sign it and we email it to CEL and the Court as I think today may be the last day as court is on 21/09/2021 (possibly tomorrow, but I'm not sure there).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9a22y3jx5y8uw9w/Witness%20Statement%20and%20Exhibits%20-%20CEL%20-%20Redacted.pdf?dl=0

Edit: I don't see an option to attach a file, only image, but I'm sure I have seen documents attached here before.

Jenni_D

Put the (redacted) docs on a file hosting site (such as dropbox) and put a link to it here.

bergkamp10

Ok thank you. I'll do that now. I thought I could upload it directly as I thought I saw others do it but maybe I was mistaken.

bergkamp10

Ok, I have uploaded it to dropbox and attached. Thank you Jenni

Redx

bergkamp10 said:

Ok thank you. I'll do that now. I thought I could upload it directly as I thought I saw others do it but maybe I was mistaken.

Not mistaken , it did happen early on , maybe last year after the forum changed , but was removed a while ago , leaving only pictures as an upload option. The old forum never allowed it

Use a file hosting site

bergkamp10

No worries Redx, I guess it was some older posts I saw that had those, for example the one linked in the newbies thread where the WS template was made. That is where I saw I think.

Edit: By the way, if the date of the hearing is 21/09 then it's today that is the last day to submit right? Or do we have until tomorrow?

Redx

I would say today , but no harm in doing it earlier , it doesn't have to go to the wire !!

bergkamp10

Yeah thanks, I agree but unfortunately if it is today then it is kind of down to the wire haha. We'll send it off today. By the way  does the court have the same 4pm deadline that CCBAQ did or is it pretty much any time today that should be ok?