Electric meter faulty - energy supplier wants to fit smart meters

niktheguru

But that is two separate arguments.
If your argument is "using greener energy/supporting the grid/being more responsible with energy use" then of course, you can do that off your own back, dont need a smart meter, dont need a complicated tariff.

But most people are more concerned with "what is the cheapest i can get my energy" and the bonus is "can i be greener with my consumption" - and for that purpose this is what these tariffs are designed for. The energy companies aren't going to reward people with lots of free energy for this purpose, they have to make money too, thats why the peak prices are higher, and until recently the off peak prices have been very low. Have you worked out how many kwh you [b] actually use [/b] between 4pm and 7pm? If you load shift appropriately you WILL save money on these tariffs if you have high usage. It just depends upon whether that is convenient for you and whether you have the time to invest in it. Certainly for my purposes agile is prob a bit too much unless the off peak rates go as low as they were last summer, but I certainly will be moving to go or go faster.

Telegraph_Sam

"But most people are more concerned with "what is the cheapest i can get my energy" and the bonus is "can i be greener with my consumption" - Agreed, but see *** ...
"and for that purpose this is what these tariffs are designed for.".  Not so clear cut.
If you are a regular EV driver then the conclusion is indeed clear.  Otherwise the "price" of having the central heating and lights and TV and cooker off until  off peak in winter would be for most people myself included too much. Shifting showers and PC use until 3 am would not be worth the candle in terms of savings. I don't think such tariffs would be suitable.
Complicating factors:
- *** Some suppliers I think Octopus included are "100% green" with their generation so the usual green / not green distinctions are  beginning to break down
- I make a point of using my washing machine - which could be load shifted to 3 am. - instead at peak sunshine hours - in order to capitalize on my solar panels (having concluded that it would take light years for purchase of battery storage to be amortized).
I think I (as a non EV driver) will exclude Agile for these reasons and base my switch decision on how the Go Faster peak time rates compare with the conventional tariffs.

Phones4Chris

Grumpy_chap said:

This idea of load-shifting does appeal to me.  I would be hampered by not having smart meter.  
To really make this kind of thing work, there needs to be functionality to shift loads without constant intervention, for example through Alexa or similar.  So, if the time if 4 - 7 that is peak rate 35 p/kWh and I forget so switch the washing machine on at half 6, Alexa intervenes and adds a start delay until 7.  That's where I'd want to be getting to with all of this.

Why make it too complicated. You only need your internet to be down and things like Alexa etc can go down the creek. Just use a plug-in time-switch for your washing machine. I know lots that have done that for years on Economy 7.

Telegraph_Sam

It's not unknown for there to be internet connection problems here. In such circs do smart meters still work or lose their "functionality"? 
 I use a 7-day programmable thermostat (which can be manually over-ridden) for my C/H and could never see the added benefit of being able to adjust it from miles away.  Dragging the control of my energy system into the Internet of Things strikes me as unnecessarily gimmicky (in my circs).

niktheguru

Telegraph_Sam said:

It's not unknown for there to be internet connection problems here. In such circs do smart meters still work or lose their "functionality"? 
 I use a 7-day programmable thermostat (which can be manually over-ridden) for my C/H and could never see the added benefit of being able to adjust it from miles away.  Dragging the control of my energy system into the Internet of Things strikes me as unnecessarily gimmicky (in my circs).

Your smart meter doesn’t connect to your home internet. It uses zigbee to connect the meters and ihd to you comms hub, then has a WAN protocol depending on where in the country you are. Of course these services can go down though I’m sure the smart meter itself logs usage depending on times on board, and just uploads it to the supplier when it regained connectivity, rather than it being necessary to be uploading continually.

I agree a programmable thermostat is more than adequate for heating. I do have a smart heating system with programmable Trvs for each radiator, hence I can change temperatures in each room of the house either thru a control panel or thru an app/internet. Though it’s something that doesn’t need to be touched daily, it’s very handy if we need the water to be on a bit longer, we need to heat a room just before we get home or if when on holiday you can keep the whole thing off then turn it on a few hours before you return....but I agree, more of a luxury than a necessity. (For that reason things like hive and nest where it only handles one or two zones is less useful)

if you’re interested in looking at the agile rates there’s a good website with all the data on it.
https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-london/
for the last couple of months the prices haven’t been great but you can see over the last year the average rate is around 8p/kWh excl 4-7pm. The averages cost is 25p/kWh between 4-7 and averaged out it’s 9.75p/kWh, which is pretty decent (but only 1p less than my current lower hassle fixed rate) so there are savings to be made if you can be bothered to take the challenge. Though I agree with you, for my purpose the go or go faster tariff is more desirable. (Tho can see how agile would be amazing for someone who worked evenings/lates and was out of the house during the peak periods)

Telegraph_Sam

Tks for the clarification. Except that I get twitchy every time I read the word "average", in this case since it depends so much on the skew between peak and off peak consumption. They could dole it out for zillch during off peak but if I'm hardly consuming much at that time then any benefit is going to get outweighed by the "premium" for peak consumption. Which is why I think that for non EV people it's far more practical to compare the peak rate with the best available fixed rate tariff, as you have done, and regard any savings from off peak consumption as a bonus. Can you remind me if peak = 4 - 7 pm applies to all "innovative" tariffs or is there some variance between them? It looks like with Go / Faster there is just an off peak period between 12 and 4 am.and no penalty for 4 - 7 pm which makes comparisons difficult.

Telegraph_Sam

I can't find / get the Go Faster tariffs to work on the energy-stats web site despite several attempts at increasing frustration levels

niktheguru

Go faster is just like go. These tariffs have a cheap rate and a standard rate. The standard rate is charged for the 18-20 hour period when you don’t get the cheap rate. There is no premium for using energy in the 4-7 time period, that’s only agile.

It sounds like agile is totally not for you. I’d prob say the only scenario where go faster is better for you than a standard cheap fixed/variable rate is if there was a negligible difference in the standard rate cost on go/go faster in your area compared to the best competitors cheapest unit rate. (Then the cheaper 4-5 hours is a bonus saving) bear in mind you’ll need a smart meter for go and go faster, something which you don’t seem too keen on.

Phones4Chris

niktheguru said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

It's not unknown for there to be internet connection problems here. In such circs do smart meters still work or lose their "functionality"? 
 I use a 7-day programmable thermostat (which can be manually over-ridden) for my C/H and could never see the added benefit of being able to adjust it from miles away.  Dragging the control of my energy system into the Internet of Things strikes me as unnecessarily gimmicky (in my circs).

Your smart meter doesn’t connect to your home internet....................

My remark about the internet was in the context of things like Alexa, not smart meters.

niktheguru

Phones4Chris said:

niktheguru said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

It's not unknown for there to be internet connection problems here. In such circs do smart meters still work or lose their "functionality"? 
 I use a 7-day programmable thermostat (which can be manually over-ridden) for my C/H and could never see the added benefit of being able to adjust it from miles away.  Dragging the control of my energy system into the Internet of Things strikes me as unnecessarily gimmicky (in my circs).

Your smart meter doesn’t connect to your home internet....................

My remark about the internet was in the context of things like Alexa, not smart meters.

I know, my response was to telegraph Sam's message not yours.