dcb legal - CCPC (you know the drill)

LJB179

Seemslegitium said:

LJB179 said:

Yes, I count 56 days from 11th Dec to 5th Jan - then we should add 2 days on to account for delivery time. Is this written into the rules?

11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20
21	22	23	24	25	26	27	28	29	30
1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20
21	22	23	24	25	26	27	28	29	30
31	1	2	3	4	5

What they're saying is that the assumption is that the NtK is received 2 days after the date of issue - so if the NtK was issued on the 5th, they have issued it too late, as the NtK needs to have been received on day 56, NOT posted / issued.

Yes, I totally understand this, but does it hold up as a defence, in practice?

KeithP

LJB179 said:

Yes, I count 56 days from 11th Dec to 5th Jan - then we should add 2 days on to account for delivery time. Is this written into the rules?

Rules?? It's Statute Law. POFA 2012 Sch4 para 8(4) to (6)...

(4) The notice must be given by—

(a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

(6) A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

LJB179

KeithP said:

LJB179 said:

Yes, I count 56 days from 11th Dec to 5th Jan - then we should add 2 days on to account for delivery time. Is this written into the rules?

Rules?? It's Statute Law. POFA 2012 Sch4 para 8(4) to (6)...

(4) The notice must be given by—

(a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

(6) A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

Fantastic, thank you. This doesn't change anything with regards to the pursuit of the driver, based on what was said above, so they will still go after me if they think I was the driver at the time?

Seemslegitium

LJB179 said:

KeithP said:

LJB179 said:

Yes, I count 56 days from 11th Dec to 5th Jan - then we should add 2 days on to account for delivery time. Is this written into the rules?

Rules?? It's Statute Law. POFA 2012 Sch4 para 8(4) to (6)...

(4) The notice must be given by—

(a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

(6) A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

Fantastic, thank you. This doesn't change anything with regards to the pursuit of the driver, based on what was said above, so they will still go after me if they think I was the driver at the time?

"think" doesn't hold up in court. They need proof, which they can't really have unless you admit as such.
Regardless, you'd need to double check, but I believe PoFA also covers the deadlines for NtD (Notice to 

KeithP

LJB179 said:

KeithP said:

LJB179 said:

Yes, I count 56 days from 11th Dec to 5th Jan - then we should add 2 days on to account for delivery time. Is this written into the rules?

Rules?? It's Statute Law. POFA 2012 Sch4 para 8(4) to (6)...

(4) The notice must be given by—

(a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

(6) A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

Fantastic, thank you. This doesn't change anything with regards to the pursuit of the driver, based on what was said above, so they will still go after me if they think I was the driver at the time?

That's correct.

LJB179

Slightly conflicting messages, however, both ultimately along the same lines. I will have a good ol' Google over the weekend to get to grips with this. And, I suppose this would be something worthwhile mentioning in my letter to dcbl. I.e. They're wasting their time with pursuing it. Or better to withhold it until later on?

LJB179

On the 30 day hold, I asked whether it's better to do this on like day 28 of the 30 day period they gave initially, to then prolong action by another 30 days. Is this how it works, or is it just 30 days in total from the date of the letter being received? 

KeithP

LJB179 said:

On the 30 day hold, I asked whether it's better to do this on like day 28 of the 30 day period they gave initially, to then prolong action by another 30 days. Is this how it works, or is it just 30 days in total from the date of the letter being received? 

Paragraph 4.2 of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims states:

You decide.  It looks to me to be thirty days from when you request the delay.

KeithP

Seemslegitium said:

LJB179 said:

KeithP said:

LJB179 said:

Yes, I count 56 days from 11th Dec to 5th Jan - then we should add 2 days on to account for delivery time. Is this written into the rules?

Rules?? It's Statute Law. POFA 2012 Sch4 para 8(4) to (6)...

(4) The notice must be given by—

(a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

(6) A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

Fantastic, thank you. This doesn't change anything with regards to the pursuit of the driver, based on what was said above, so they will still go after me if they think I was the driver at the time?

...I believe PoFA also covers the deadlines for NtD (Notice to Driver).

It does. A NtD must be served on the driver at the time of the parking event.

LJB179

KeithP said:

LJB179 said:

On the 30 day hold, I asked whether it's better to do this on like day 28 of the 30 day period they gave initially, to then prolong action by another 30 days. Is this how it works, or is it just 30 days in total from the date of the letter being received? 

Paragraph 4.2 of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims states:

You decide.  It looks to me to be thirty days from when you request the delay.

Thank you, I agree with you. Might hold on for a week, just so that I can get my ducks in a row. Seems sensible, given the plethora or information and advice I've received. In any case, I read that we do not fill out the reply form, we simply email dcbl.