Vaccination queue jumping.

gettingtheresometime

molerat said:

Browntoa said:

We've had loads of teachers near me in Sittingbourne abusing a link shared over Facebook and WhatsApp to book appointments . The link was , quite rightly , solely for teachers who worked with vulnerable children with complex health issues.

They are all trying to now justify their actions despite it being all over the news that teachers , on the whole , have not been given priority over everybody else . 

It seems that although the link was meant to be for a specific group of teachers NHS management managed to foul up and open it up to "teachers" with no qualifying criteria.  Apparently it was also incorrectly opened up to all 999 workers as well and not just front line staff. Can't blame them for applying if they fit the criteria (wrongly) specified.

I have to be honest I don't understand this 'we must get teachers/whoever vaccinated first' argument.
As I understand it, the vaccine doesn't stop you catching Covid, it lessens the effects of the virus. So if you're in one of the vulnerable categories, you'd be prioritised regardless of profession. And even if you had been vaccinated surely you'd have to self isolate if you caught the virus? Or am I (genuinely) missing something?

Jeremy535897

gettingtheresometime said:

molerat said:

Browntoa said:

We've had loads of teachers near me in Sittingbourne abusing a link shared over Facebook and WhatsApp to book appointments . The link was , quite rightly , solely for teachers who worked with vulnerable children with complex health issues.

They are all trying to now justify their actions despite it being all over the news that teachers , on the whole , have not been given priority over everybody else . 

It seems that although the link was meant to be for a specific group of teachers NHS management managed to foul up and open it up to "teachers" with no qualifying criteria.  Apparently it was also incorrectly opened up to all 999 workers as well and not just front line staff. Can't blame them for applying if they fit the criteria (wrongly) specified.

I have to be honest I don't understand this 'we must get teachers/whoever vaccinated first' argument.
As I understand it, the vaccine doesn't stop you catching Covid, it lessens the effects of the virus. So if you're in one of the vulnerable categories, you'd be prioritised regardless of profession. And even if you had been vaccinated surely you'd have to self isolate if you caught the virus? Or am I (genuinely) missing something?

A factor you have not mentioned is people who are exposed to a very heavy load of the virus, which may be responsible for some deaths of front line NHS staff. 

gettingtheresometime

Jeremy535897 said:

gettingtheresometime said:

molerat said:

Browntoa said:

We've had loads of teachers near me in Sittingbourne abusing a link shared over Facebook and WhatsApp to book appointments . The link was , quite rightly , solely for teachers who worked with vulnerable children with complex health issues.

They are all trying to now justify their actions despite it being all over the news that teachers , on the whole , have not been given priority over everybody else . 

It seems that although the link was meant to be for a specific group of teachers NHS management managed to foul up and open it up to "teachers" with no qualifying criteria.  Apparently it was also incorrectly opened up to all 999 workers as well and not just front line staff. Can't blame them for applying if they fit the criteria (wrongly) specified.

I have to be honest I don't understand this 'we must get teachers/whoever vaccinated first' argument.
As I understand it, the vaccine doesn't stop you catching Covid, it lessens the effects of the virus. So if you're in one of the vulnerable categories, you'd be prioritised regardless of profession. And even if you had been vaccinated surely you'd have to self isolate if you caught the virus? Or am I (genuinely) missing something?

A factor you have not mentioned is people who are exposed to a very heavy load of the virus, which may be responsible for some deaths of front line NHS staff. 

Hadn't thought of that.

jimi_man

gettingtheresometime said:

molerat said:

Browntoa said:

We've had loads of teachers near me in Sittingbourne abusing a link shared over Facebook and WhatsApp to book appointments . The link was , quite rightly , solely for teachers who worked with vulnerable children with complex health issues.

They are all trying to now justify their actions despite it being all over the news that teachers , on the whole , have not been given priority over everybody else . 

It seems that although the link was meant to be for a specific group of teachers NHS management managed to foul up and open it up to "teachers" with no qualifying criteria.  Apparently it was also incorrectly opened up to all 999 workers as well and not just front line staff. Can't blame them for applying if they fit the criteria (wrongly) specified.

As I understand it, the vaccine doesn't stop you catching Covid, it lessens the effects of the virus. 

This is something that is doing the rounds and it seems to be a misunderstanding of what actually happens. 

The Covid vaccine is just that - a vaccine, which by definition, is a foreigh body with a makeup similar to the disease, that enters the body and stimulates it to produce antibodies and T cell immunity so that when the actual infection strikes, it's remembered and the body can fight it off. It's designed to produce immunity to Covid by this method, however as with the flu vaccine there are limitations. If a person, having had the vaccine, catches Covid, there is obviously a finite time between when the infection enters the body and when the body fights it off completely. Presumably this is dependent on many variables, not least of which is the amount of infection or viral load that enters the body. Being a respiratory illness then it may still be able to be passed via aerosol droplets and this is the case with flu, since even if someone has had the flu vaccine they can still pass it on and also asymptomatics carriers can also pass flu on as well. Obviously other vaccines such as polio, tetanus and typhoid are not passed on this way so there is less risk of normal day to day contact as with respiratory illnesses.

It's not known at this stage to what extent that this happens since we are at the start of Phase 5 - monitoring and reporting, so the more data that comes in then the more informed we will be. Clearly irrespective of any vaccine, it can still be passed on by door handle to door handle, which also amplifies the continual need (unfortunately) for restrictions. 

Of course it could be argued the other way, that no vaccines actually stop you catching the respective illness, since the antigens have to invade the body so that the antibodies and T cells can be activated to do their stuff. And of course everyone has different immune systems so this may happen to greater or lesser degree. However to say that 'the vaccine doesn't stop you catching Covid, it lessens the effects of the virus', ascribes it as being something akin to Lemsip for a cold - when in fact the vaccine should stop you catching and developing more serious Covid by creating immunity but subject to the limitations above. 

I should add that I'm not an expert - this was all gleaned from the (surprisingly in-depth) NHS learning that I had to undertake last week in order to be able to vaccinate people as a volunteer. (There was a lot more stuff, to do with B cells and things that I'd have to read again to understand fully). If there are any experts on here who'd like to add/point out any mistakes that I've made then please do. I've learnt enough to be able to jab people but it's an interesting subject so I'm still reading around it.

[Deleted User]

parcival said:

I thought we were a country that didn't like cheaters or people that manipulate the system to give themselves an advantage at the expense of others.....

No, we love them because they give us something to complain about.

This country is awful, full of curtain twitchers and "upright" citizens just itching to report their neighbors bad behaviour.

Thrugelmir

[DELETED USER] said:

parcival said:

I thought we were a country that didn't like cheaters or people that manipulate the system to give themselves an advantage at the expense of others.....

This country is awful, full of curtain twitchers and "upright" citizens just itching to report their neighbors bad behaviour.

Leave then. If you don't feel part of the community.  It's a big world out there. People are simply fed up with those who out themselves first. Those that spend their time complaining about others. Are normal the biggest whiners of all when it comes to something that impacts themselves personally. 

Bobo_Brazil

gettingtheresometime said:

As I understand it, the vaccine doesn't stop you catching Covid, it lessens the effects of the virus. So if you're in one of the vulnerable categories, you'd be prioritised regardless of profession. And even if you had been vaccinated surely you'd have to self isolate if you caught the virus? Or am I (genuinely) missing something?

I haven't seen anyone claim anything to the contrary, the Pfizer CEO, Bourla, in interviews has been extremely careful not to claim that the jab either stops you catching it, or prevents onward transmission. In fact he clearly said it was 'not tested,'  to see whether the jab prevented onward transmission of the virus at all. In their US briefing document the most Pfizer said about it was that it was an "investigational vaccine" (p8) and said it "must be introduced before the peak of reported cases to have a significant impact on the pandemic course." (p 74) 
https://www.fda.gov/media/144246/download

WHO Chief Scientist Soumya Swaminathan said in Dec 2020 - 'no evidence' that any of the vaccines would reduce transmission. This all lines up with Van Tam's statements shortly after Christmas and early this year, basically he didn't even mention this year at all, he not so subtly implied this year at least will probably be a repeat of 2020.. writing in the Telegraph he said those having the vaccine will be required to maintain masks & social distancing measures for a long & unspecified amount of time though it's true to say the vaccine 'gives us hope' he says.. Prof. Witty plain as day at the Downing St briefing a couple of weeks ago, clearly indicated there would be restrictions through winter.  Also tallies up with school children being slowly nudged towards online only friends, in some cases being told that the future of friends is not to have offline friends in the real world, but in the future they will celebrate digital moments with digital friends, celebrating digital birthdays & a digital Christmas..

Mickey666

Do ANY vaccinations prevent you catching the relevant disease?  Children are jabbed for all sorts of diseases but still contract measles, chicken pox, whatever.  The point is that if/when they do catch it the disease is mild and not harmful.  I think it's the same with these Covid jabs - you might still contract the virus but the result won't be serious.

jimi_man

Bobo_Brazil said:

gettingtheresometime said:

As I understand it, the vaccine doesn't stop you catching Covid, it lessens the effects of the virus. So if you're in one of the vulnerable categories, you'd be prioritised regardless of profession. And even if you had been vaccinated surely you'd have to self isolate if you caught the virus? Or am I (genuinely) missing something?

I haven't seen anyone claim anything to the contrary, the Pfizer CEO, Bourla, in interviews has been extremely careful not to claim that the jab either stops you catching it, or prevents onward transmission. In fact he clearly said it was 'not tested,'  to see whether the jab prevented onward transmission of the virus at all. In their US briefing document the most Pfizer said about it was that it was an "investigational vaccine" (p8) and said it "must be introduced before the peak of reported cases to have a significant impact on the pandemic course." (p 74) 
https://www.fda.gov/media/144246/download

WHO Chief Scientist Soumya Swaminathan said in Dec 2020 - 'no evidence' that any of the vaccines would reduce transmission. This all lines up with Van Tam's statements shortly after Christmas and early this year, basically he didn't even mention this year at all, he not so subtly implied this year at least will probably be a repeat of 2020.. writing in the Telegraph he said those having the vaccine will be required to maintain masks & social distancing measures for a long & unspecified amount of time though it's true to say the vaccine 'gives us hope' he says.. Prof. Witty plain as day at the Downing St briefing a couple of weeks ago, clearly indicated there would be restrictions through winter.  Also tallies up with school children being slowly nudged towards online only friends, in some cases being told that the future of friends is not to have offline friends in the real world, but in the future they will celebrate digital moments with digital friends, celebrating digital birthdays & a digital Christmas..

And yet the study released this morning about the Oxford vaccine renders pretty much all of the above broadly incorrect. (Not the first time the WHO have been wrong to be fair). 

And as for children being told not to have ‘offline friends’ in the future but to have ‘digital moments’ with ‘digital friends’????? Please don’t think I’m being rude but you’ve been watching far too much sci fi. 

jimi_man

Mickey666 said:

Do ANY vaccinations prevent you catching the relevant disease?  Children are jabbed for all sorts of diseases but still contract measles, chicken pox, whatever.  The point is that if/when they do catch it the disease is mild and not harmful.  I think it's the same with these Covid jabs - you might still contract the virus but the result won't be serious.

Correct. The infection still has to enter the body for the antibodies and T cells to act.