Employer (Ford Motor Company) Didn't Pay National Insurance - State Pension Diminished

LHW99

RedditchResident said:

squirrelpie said:

"

Another way to look at it might be that you were delinquent in not checking, complaining and bringing action within the time limit applicable to such actions. 

I have no idea how people checked their state pension in 1990.  Do you know?

It was possible at that time (probably before) by writing to the DWP (or whatever they were called then, DHSS?). But NI deductions should have been on payslips if you have any of those left.

sammyjammy

RedditchResident said:

squirrelpie said:

"

Another way to look at it might be that you were delinquent in not checking, complaining and bringing action within the time limit applicable to such actions. 

I have no idea how people checked their state pension in 1990.  Do you know?

I'm sure it was more complicated but communicating with them by post/telephone was an option!  Its too late now for you but perhaps others reading may learn the lesson to always keep your P60s, FOREVER

JoeCrystal

sammyjammy said:

I'm sure it was more complicated but communicating with them by post/telephone was an option!  Its too late now for you but perhaps others reading may learn the lesson to always keep your P60s, FOREVER

And besides, if I remember correctly, I once got a letter from HMRC asking me if I want to make up for the year I did not pay enough in a period of part-time working. Although I think they stop sending such letters by now. 

RedditchResident

RedditchResident said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

I don't think what was or wasn't paid is relevant.  It was what was or wasn't reported by your employer. 

Payment would be between Ford and HMRC, nothing to do with you.

Do you have your P60 for the tax year in question to show that NIC was deducted?

I don't have the P60.  I am still struggling with how to interpret this, or indeed use it to my advantage.  What difference does it make if Ford failed to report correctly or failed to pay HMRC, or both?  How should the situation be handled to obtain a resolution? 

Something I realised I didn't make clear; Ford openly admits that it didn't pay the National Insurance Contributions to HMRC.  

RedditchResident

molerat said:

The problem is that if the NI records office are not willing to admit they are wrong ...

Something I failed to make clear, Ford openly admits it didn't pay the NICs for the year.

xylophone

Something I failed to make clear, Ford openly admits it didn't pay the NICs for the year.

Neither employee nor employer contributions?

Was NICO negligent in not following this up?

Presumably you checked your monthly pay slips for deductions - if no NI did it not occur to you to query this?

RedditchResident

xylophone said:

Something I failed to make clear, Ford openly admits it didn't pay the NICs for the year.

Neither employee nor employer contributions?

Was NICO negligent in not following this up?

Presumably you checked your monthly pay slips for deductions - if no NI did it not occur to you to query this?

My payslip appeared normal. They should have remitted NICs to HMRC but they didn't and they admit they didn't.

GrumpyDil

If they've admitted that in writing then that's something you need to tell NICO about. 

hyubh

RedditchResident said:

xylophone said:

Something I failed to make clear, Ford openly admits it didn't pay the NICs for the year.

Neither employee nor employer contributions?

Was NICO negligent in not following this up?

Presumably you checked your monthly pay slips for deductions - if no NI did it not occur to you to query this?

My payslip appeared normal. They should have remitted NICs to HMRC but they didn't and they admit they didn't.

NB: that may well trump the suggestion I was going to make. But I'll make it anyway 

One possibility is fishing for evidence from the administrators of the Ford pension scheme, as all pension schemes with GMP liabilities would have undertaken a GMP reconciliation exercise over the past 5 years or so. So, in the enquiry you would briefly state the context of currently dealing with an issue with your state pension. While you understand the Ford scheme is not responsible for your state pension, you would like to know if your GMP and contracting out service was reconciled with HMRC when the scheme reconciled its data generally with HMRC. If it was, you would be grateful of confirmation of the SCON and ECON it was reconciled against, and whether the HMRC reconciliation data agreed your service to be continuous, or if your scheme service details (which you have no dispute with) were accepted by the trustee on a different basis.

If you can get a clear answer out of the Ford scheme (written or email), it would form something to go to NICO/HMRC with - i.e. if you will be receipt of a GMP based on service including the missing year, then it doesn't really make sense for that year not to count for your state pension.

To be clear however, this is a different approach to approaching HMRC with evidence Ford payroll admitting they made a mistake. Depending on how clearcut the latter is, that may be more powerful - the GMP rec one was just my own line of thinking before.

RedditchResident

GrumpyDil said:

If they've admitted that in writing then that's something you need to tell NICO about. 

Its unambiguous and comes from one Andrew Wanambwa of the law firm Lewis Silkin.  It has been pointed out to me that Mr Wanambwa (lawyer)   '...is an economic tort specialist, ... that suggests a risk of bigger exposure for [Ford], so they need to tread carefully and avoid setting precedents from their point of view.'  That particular comment came from an ex Ford employee (who will remain anonymous).