Electric car costs and additional costs

Grumpy_chap

Bonniepurple said:

if I were to hire the battery, almost within budget.  

I have never understood the EV's with the battery hire options, in particular how that works once beyond the first three or four year PCP period of a brand new car.  Maybe you have got to grips with the option?

Bonniepurple said:

The big issue for me is the lack of space.  I need a car that will fit my mobility scooter in, along with 4 people.  My DH is self employed (well, pre covid!) and needs a big boot to cart his stuff around.  Until EVs have enough space - and battery range- to cope with all that, they’re not worth even dreaming about for me.   

Kia e-Niro may meet the space and range requirements.
Telsa 3 has an enormous boot and long range, but saloon rather than hatchback may mean loading a mobility scooter is tricky.
Based upon your first line, these tow options may not meet the budget.

Ectophile

Grumpy_chap said:

Bonniepurple said:

if I were to hire the battery, almost within budget.  

I have never understood the EV's with the battery hire options, in particular how that works once beyond the first three or four year PCP period of a brand new car.  Maybe you have got to grips with the option?

It doesn't work, which is why all the manufacturers have dropped the battery hire.

When EVs were new, and nobody knew how long the batteries would last, it made sense.  If you hired the battery, and it failed early, the manufacturer would have to pay for the new one.  You would never be hit with a bill for thousands of pounds for a new battery.

And for the first buyer, using PCP or a lease, the cost worked out pretty much the same whether the battery was rented, or added to the sale price.

But when people realised that EV batteries lasted for many years, the savvy second hand buyers turned their noses up at cars where they had to pay a fee for the battery every month for the entire life of the car.  Since the finance companies have to sell the cars at auction once the first users have handed the cars back, they don't want to be stuck with cars that second-hand buyers don't want.

GunJack

born_again said:

GunJack said:

It's not the so much that you do that day in, day out, but it's the ability to do it should it be necessary. As someone mentioned earlier, lots of people do 400 mile round trips in a day for business meetings...easy in an ICE, with no garage stops in the day. Probably not possible in an EV, and especially not in an under-£1000 EV. The price differential between an ICE and EV for me would give me 6-7 year's-worth of fuel and VED, along with almost-zero depreciation, so with the leccy costs that would probably add another couple of years. And I'm one of the lucky ones who has a driveway on which to charge, should I ever in my lifetime have to have an EV.

Simple. The car gets charged while they are in the meeting.

so the ultimate conclusion to that is, every firm's car park needs enough charge points for everyone who works there plus more for visitors???? 

VFR

My take on this .............

Never paid more than a few grand for a car as that is all I have ever been able to afford without getting strapped up with some kind of finance.
I do park off road and do around 10 to 30mls every day so on paper an EV would suit me a treat.
Now should my ICE car break down its likely (touch wood) than any repair I cannot do will not break the bank but I am sure that would not be the case with an EV, from what I have read over the last few years is you must have a manufactures guarantee in place as the costs to repair (nearly always replace) the drive train etc will make you cry without cover.
Trouble is you need a fairly new car to have that kind of cover so back to needing some finance on a car that is no more than a few years old.
For others range "must" always be at the back of your mind unless you own a Tesla as to my mind a cheaper EV that has a range of say 150mls max will only be good in the real world for 120 & as you would not want it to go down to say 20mls left has a usable range of around 80-90 (IMO) so unless you can charge off road forget it and even then (again what I read) it is pot luck if your nearest charging place works when needed.

Is it really going to alter Climate Change (?) as most of the predicted "models" may well be twaddle (think Ferguson)
and as we now know producing batteries is certainly not clean or green, still not PC to mention that I know.

Grumpy_chap

VFR said:

Now should my ICE car break down its likely (touch wood) than any repair I cannot do will not break the bank but I am sure that would not be the case with an EV, from what I have read over the last few years is you must have a manufactures guarantee in place as the costs to repair (nearly always replace) the drive train etc will make you cry without cover.

For others range "must" always be at the back of your mind unless you own a Tesla as to my mind a cheaper EV that has a range of say 150mls max will only be good in the real world for 120

As I understand it, excluding the battery, repairs and maintenance for an EV are simpler than an ICE.  Does "simpler" equate to "more affordable"?

Some of the non-premium EVs now have longer ranges, for example Hyundai / Kia.  I am sure that VW will be joining that group very soon.  Plus the Ford Mustang Mach-E (though it carries a premium price tag).  The range on the Leaf. Corsa, etc. is starting to increase, though not yet to a level that will suit for all.

dipsomaniac

some interesting points.  is anyone regulating the car industry to protect consumers?  it doesn't feel like it.  can't believe that manufacturers are getting away with coding more parts to ecu so you have to take car to main dealer for replacing parts/maintenance.  it all started with ecu's and diagnostic sockets.  you can see where we are heading.  even replacing windscreen wipers will require a trip to the dealer at a huge cost

don't know about anyone else but its such a refreshing site seeing the bonnet up or wheel off a car on someones drive these days

Ectophile

Whenever I listen to people who have EVs, they always comment on how little they spend om servicing.

All the problems that you might fix yourself on a petrol or diesel car don't even exist on an EV.  There's no clutch to wear out, or clutch hydraulic system to fail.  There's no cooling system to spring a leak, and no oil system to leak either.  There's no exhaust to fall off.  There's no HT system to break down.

About the only thing that does need regular servicing are the brakes, and even they last longer if you make use of regenerative braking.

If I had known in advance how much I was going to have to spend on my old petrol car in repairs last year, I would have driven it down the scrap yard and bought an EV then.  But now I will have to keep it at least a few more months.

VFR

Grumpy_chap said:

VFR said:

Now should my ICE car break down its likely (touch wood) than any repair I cannot do will not break the bank but I am sure that would not be the case with an EV, from what I have read over the last few years is you must have a manufactures guarantee in place as the costs to repair (nearly always replace) the drive train etc will make you cry without cover.

For others range "must" always be at the back of your mind unless you own a Tesla as to my mind a cheaper EV that has a range of say 150mls max will only be good in the real world for 120

As I understand it, excluding the battery, repairs and maintenance for an EV are simpler than an ICE.  Does "simpler" equate to "more affordable"?

Some of the non-premium EVs now have longer ranges, for example Hyundai / Kia.  I am sure that VW will be joining that group very soon.  Plus the Ford Mustang Mach-E (though it carries a premium price tag).  The range on the Leaf. Corsa, etc. is starting to increase, though not yet to a level that will suit for all.

For sure there is a good deal less maintenance and as I try to do most things myself it's good news, its if any of the electrical (or related) things go wrong that can cost thousands & take a "long" time to rectify that scare me.

dipsomaniac

Ectophile said:

Whenever I listen to people who have EVs, they always comment on how little they spend om servicing.

All the problems that you might fix yourself on a petrol or diesel car don't even exist on an EV.  There's no clutch to wear out, or clutch hydraulic system to fail.  There's no cooling system to spring a leak, and no oil system to leak either.  There's no exhaust to fall off.  There's no HT system to break down.

About the only thing that does need regular servicing are the brakes, and even they last longer if you make use of regenerative braking.

If I had known in advance how much I was going to have to spend on my old petrol car in repairs last year, I would have driven it down the scrap yard and bought an EV then.  But now I will have to keep it at least a few more months.

there are less moving parts but what worries me is that if there is less to go wrong where are the dealers going to make up the lost revenue from servicing and repairs?  there business model atm seems to be the mach3 model - sell the handle at cost and sting you on the service parts.  are they going to try and keep the new prices high (the apple effect)?  who knows

NottinghamKnight

GunJack said:

born_again said:

GunJack said:

It's not the so much that you do that day in, day out, but it's the ability to do it should it be necessary. As someone mentioned earlier, lots of people do 400 mile round trips in a day for business meetings...easy in an ICE, with no garage stops in the day. Probably not possible in an EV, and especially not in an under-£1000 EV. The price differential between an ICE and EV for me would give me 6-7 year's-worth of fuel and VED, along with almost-zero depreciation, so with the leccy costs that would probably add another couple of years. And I'm one of the lucky ones who has a driveway on which to charge, should I ever in my lifetime have to have an EV.

Simple. The car gets charged while they are in the meeting.

so the ultimate conclusion to that is, every firm's car park needs enough charge points for everyone who works there plus more for visitors???? 

No, they will need a reasonable number though. If you are at work for 8 hours plus then charging will take far less than that so you mighh need charging for maybe a quarter of your capacity and ensure that a system is in place to move cars as required.