Electric car costs and additional costs

Mickey666

dipsomaniac said:

Ectophile said:

Whenever I listen to people who have EVs, they always comment on how little they spend om servicing.

All the problems that you might fix yourself on a petrol or diesel car don't even exist on an EV.  There's no clutch to wear out, or clutch hydraulic system to fail.  There's no cooling system to spring a leak, and no oil system to leak either.  There's no exhaust to fall off.  There's no HT system to break down.

About the only thing that does need regular servicing are the brakes, and even they last longer if you make use of regenerative braking.

If I had known in advance how much I was going to have to spend on my old petrol car in repairs last year, I would have driven it down the scrap yard and bought an EV then.  But now I will have to keep it at least a few more months.

there are less moving parts but what worries me is that if there is less to go wrong where are the dealers going to make up the lost revenue from servicing and repairs?  there business model atm seems to be the mach3 model - sell the handle at cost and sting you on the service parts.  are they going to try and keep the new prices high (the apple effect)?  who knows

The sales and servicing parts of main agents are separate business units, so it's not the 'dealers' that will lose revenues per se, but I know what you mean.  
"Who knows?" . . . well no one does really, which is a good reason for not jumping in to the EV world too quickly.  ICE cars are not going to disappear anytime soon, more and more EVs are going to be launched in the coming years and the changeover will change change gradually.   
Or, government might make significant interventions in order to artificially move the markets with things like tax breaks or manipulating fossil fuel duty and car taxes.  We just don't know. 
Also, there will never be one 'right time' to swap an ICE for an EV because all motorists needs and desires are different.  Some will be avid 'early adopters', some will always be resistant to change, most will sensibly consider their own circumstances, the prevailing economics and decide for themselves.

DrEskimo

There are already a number of independent garages popping up that will handle EV servicing and maintenance at a fraction of the cost of a main dealer. Just as you get with ICE.

https://www.hevra.org.uk/

My Zoe is only around £60-80 from some main dealers for the main annual service needed to maintain the warranty. But the other service items I will be doing either DIY (e.g. replacing the 12v battery) or using a garage from that website (e.g. coolant replacement, brake fluid changes...think that's it actually...).

Grumpy_chap

VFR said:

For sure there is a good deal less maintenance and as I try to do most things myself it's good news, its if any of the electrical (or related) things go wrong that can cost thousands & take a "long" time to rectify that scare me.

It's my understanding, though, that the "electrical" things that are likely to go wrong and be expensive are not really electrical but electronics and all cars, whether EV or ICE are getting far more complicated electronics, which is ever more difficult to resolve if there is a fault.  Touch screen interfaces, climate control, lane control, cruise, etc., etc.  

I understand the fundamental components that make an electric car motive, the motors are really very reliable and easy to trouble shoot and replace if needed.  If these items are expensive, it is because of "conditioning" the customer to tolerate a high bill rather than the actual cost or complexity of the components themselves.

That, then, leaves the battery.  If the battery degrades on an EV, then I understand the replacement cost will be scary.  So much so that I value the residual of any used EV as "nil".

Ganga

Grumpy_chap said:

VFR said:

For sure there is a good deal less maintenance and as I try to do most things myself it's good news, its if any of the electrical (or related) things go wrong that can cost thousands & take a "long" time to rectify that scare me.

It's my understanding, though, that the "electrical" things that are likely to go wrong and be expensive are not really electrical but electronics and all cars, whether EV or ICE are getting far more complicated electronics, which is ever more difficult to resolve if there is a fault.  Touch screen interfaces, climate control, lane control, cruise, etc., etc.  

I understand the fundamental components that make an electric car motive, the motors are really very reliable and easy to trouble shoot and replace if needed.  If these items are expensive, it is because of "conditioning" the customer to tolerate a high bill rather than the actual cost or complexity of the components themselves.

That, then, leaves the battery.  If the battery degrades on an EV, then I understand the replacement cost will be scary.  So much so that I value the residual of any used EV as "nil".

So if SCARY how much are we talking about?

gzoom

Grumpy_chap said:

That, then, leaves the battery.  If the battery degrades on an EV, then I understand the replacement cost will be scary.  So much so that I value the residual of any used EV as "nil".

Given used Nissan Leaf prices are rock solid, and used EVs have some of the best residual values of any cars I would say most people don't hold your opinion.

If you don't to buy an EV you don't have to, but you are honestly missing out, EV ownership is so much better than combustion cars. I wouldn't go back to combustion cars even if you paid me.

Grumpy_chap

I agree, the value of used EV's at present is absurd.
I recently saw a 2016 Zoe at £9k (or £175/month PCP) and that did not include the battery which had to be leased extra, from £40/month for ever based on barely any miles.
For £200 monthly on PCP, you have a wide range of ICE Fiesta-type cars available.

gzoom

Grumpy_chap said:

I agree, the value of used EV's at present is absurd.

Prices are reflective of how much the battery pack in an EV is worth. A Nissan Leaf has a 24kWh pack, that is enough lithium ion cells to build 2-3 'home battery' pack, which cost anything from £3-5K each. So if you have the skills you can easily turn a £5K Leaf into a £5k+ profit just be re-using the battery pack. 

The going rate for a Tesla module is around £800-£1000 EACH, that buys you a 5kWh module, my Tesla has 15 modules, so you get an idea how much money/demand there is in used EV battery packs. 

Far from been 'worthless' used EV packs are thought after commodities, unlike a used combustion engine which really are next to worthless.  This is reflected in the residual value of EVs, they will not be dropping down to £1000 mark any time soon. 

CapricornLass

Never mind the costs of running EVs, its the lack of a reliable, common support infrastructure that worries me.  I have turned up at at motorway service station before now to find all of the charging stations were out of order.  Apparently the squirrels had got to the cabling, which they regard as a tasty treat.  Time to repair - unknown, as the company who owned them didn't know and they had been down for over a week.   I've also heard of other EV drivers turning up and finding that the charger didn't have any connections suitable for their EV, leaving them having to try and find another charging station - in their case, a further 30 miles further on, on a very low battery charge. 

I also go and visit friends and family in the north.  One lives in a house with no drive, and no reliable parking space outside, so I couldn't guarantee to park outside her house in the road.  My son lives in a second floor flat.  Charging would have to be a cable dangling out of his window and across the pavement - again assuming I was lucky enough to get a parking space outside his block.  Not exactly very safe.  I could drive round Greater Manchester looking for somewhere  to charge up, but quite frankly, when I'm on holiday, I've got better things to do.  I live in a small town, but currently, I would have to travel 10 miles to get to a charging point (and that assumes that said chargers are available to use when I arrive.  If not I could be looking at 2 hours just to charge the car up  - 20 mins to travel there and back, up to 40 mins for the person ahead of me to recharge their car, and up to 40 mins for me to charge mine).

Dont get me wrong, I think EV cars are great for an urban/city situation where the owner has their own drive or can get to a charger easily.  But for the rest of us, I think they are just too impractical at present.

Johnmcl7

Grumpy_chap said:

Bonniepurple said:

The big issue for me is the lack of space.  I need a car that will fit my mobility scooter in, along with 4 people.  My DH is self employed (well, pre covid!) and needs a big boot to cart his stuff around.  Until EVs have enough space - and battery range- to cope with all that, they’re not worth even dreaming about for me.   

Kia e-Niro may meet the space and range requirements.
Telsa 3 has an enormous boot and long range, but saloon rather than hatchback may mean loading a mobility scooter is tricky.
Based upon your first line, these tow options may not meet the budget.

As you note the narrow entry to the Tesla 3 makes in impractical for any sort of loading and the Niro only has 1,400 litres capacity in the back, a long way behind a decent estate.  There's just one electric estate available which has boot capacity more comparable to a hatchback and some of the SUV designs that appear to have a reasonable capacity are limited by intrusive wheel arches.

Nothing against electric vehicles and will certainly consider one when there's a decent sized estate option with a good spec for under 20K but for now will be sticking with petrol.  My primary transport is by bike which is vastly greener than electric cars as well as not causing congestion and improving  my health at the same time so more than content with my green credentials.  

DrEskimo

CapricornLass said:

Never mind the costs of running EVs, its the lack of a reliable, common support infrastructure that worries me.  I have turned up at at motorway service station before now to find all of the charging stations were out of order.  Apparently the squirrels had got to the cabling, which they regard as a tasty treat.  Time to repair - unknown, as the company who owned them didn't know and they had been down for over a week.   I've also heard of other EV drivers turning up and finding that the charger didn't have any connections suitable for their EV, leaving them having to try and find another charging station - in their case, a further 30 miles further on, on a very low battery charge. 

I also go and visit friends and family in the north.  One lives in a house with no drive, and no reliable parking space outside, so I couldn't guarantee to park outside her house in the road.  My son lives in a second floor flat.  Charging would have to be a cable dangling out of his window and across the pavement - again assuming I was lucky enough to get a parking space outside his block.  Not exactly very safe.  I could drive round Greater Manchester looking for somewhere  to charge up, but quite frankly, when I'm on holiday, I've got better things to do.  I live in a small town, but currently, I would have to travel 10 miles to get to a charging point (and that assumes that said chargers are available to use when I arrive.  If not I could be looking at 2 hours just to charge the car up  - 20 mins to travel there and back, up to 40 mins for the person ahead of me to recharge their car, and up to 40 mins for me to charge mine).

Dont get me wrong, I think EV cars are great for an urban/city situation where the owner has their own drive or can get to a charger easily.  But for the rest of us, I think they are just too impractical at present.

I completely agree.

Whilst I've made an EV work for me despite no drive, any lengthy drive in my Zoe would have me worried. I was fortunate that when I changed job that required a 80mile round trip, the office had reliable chargers available (although thankfully only did that journey a few weeks, now I'm 100% home based!).

So whilst there are exceptions, I agree that a trip to Cornwall for example, I wouldn't take the EV.

This is why my next EV will be a Tesla....great infrastructure and I know I can stop for even 15-20mins only and get around 100miles extra range.