Electric car costs and additional costs

SPlatten

I have been looking at electric cars and all of these are significantly more expensive than their Petrol and Diesel counter parts.  A lot of the electric cars are more than four times their equivalent model.  It's worse in that with the huge prices unless you are fortunate to be very wealthy you have to hire the car on a monthly payment that is comparable to a mortgage with a very high deposit and after three years you give it back with nothing to show except the possibility of carrying on with the same again with another vehicle.  Then there is the cost of insurance, because the vehicle itself is so high the cost of insurance is also very high, again many times the cost that it would cost for the original equivalents.  

If driving electric is the way to save the environment, why is the cost so high?  
Why isn't there some sort of insensitive or subsidy that encourages people to go electric?

In the words of Corporal Jones, "Doomed, Doomed we're all Doomed!"

Grumpy_chap

SPlatten said:

I have been looking at electric cars and all of these are significantly more expensive than their Petrol and Diesel counter parts.  A lot of the electric cars are more than four times their equivalent model.

That seems to be an exaggeration.  
Specifically which car are you comparing?

SPlatten said:

with the huge prices unless you are fortunate to be very wealthy you have to hire the car on a monthly payment that is comparable to a mortgage with a very high deposit and after three years you give it back with nothing to show

Why?
PCP is only one acquisition and use option.  
Some EVs do have scary monthlies.  So do some ICE vehicles.

SPlatten said:

Why isn't there some sort of insensitive or subsidy that encourages people to go electric?

There is, £3k on qualifying vehicles, plus a contribution to charge point, plus zero VED rates, plus low BIK if a company vehicle.

Petriix

I've just bought an EV. It cost £23k but the running costs will be around £1150 per year less than an equivalent diesel car. The additional borrowing on our mortgage is just £100 per month which just about matches the monthly saving. I'm not sure what new diesel estate car you could buy for £5750?

Tax is zero, it costs 2.5p per mile to drive, insurance is around £300 per year which is just £100 more than I was previously paying. The first service is £80 after 12 months. The brake pads and disks will last for 5+ years because they are barely used. There is no oil to change, no gearbox, no clutch. No MOT for 3 years. No congestion charge. No exhaust fumes. 

SPlatten

@Petriix, what EV costs £23K, please quote.  Granted the price of charging is less than the price of fuel.  The price your mortgage costs sound's like you were able to put down a lot initially, given the price of property most peoples mortgages are over £500 per month.

@Grumpy_chap, that's not an exageration, I've looked at plenty of cars.  I currently drive an Audi A5 2.0 TDI, the equivalent is a Tesla Model 3, starting price from £42,500.  I've never bought a new car and my Audi A5 2.0 TDI 2012 cost me £12,000 four years ago.    I've seen no scheme where you get to own the EV at the end of the term without a ridiculous final payment.  £3K is a pittance towards the total cost.

daveyjp

Don't assume not using brakes is good for them.  They can rust and sieze very quickly, so give them regular workouts, especially stopping from higher speeds.  A set of pads every couple of years  is far cheaper than pads, disks and calipers at MOT time.

Petriix

My EV is an MG5. You can pick up the basic model for under £20k with their affinity scheme, or around £21k if you have any ICEv to trade in (they give £4k + the trade in value).

I did say "additional mortgage" as in the £25k extra that we borrowed is costing us £100 per month; although £5k of this was used to make an immediate overpayment on our existing mortgage which has a slightly higher interest rate, in practice we will be overpaying most months so the cost comparison is not straightforward. I actually estimate that the switch to an EV will *cost* us £150 per month for the first 4 years due to the high initial depreciation before it reaches parity and then becomes cheaper than owning a diesel car.

Of course it's hard to compare because our old diesel was pretty much dead so needed either £1k of work to keep it running or a replacement. All in all I believe the total cost of ownership over 8 years will be the same as having bought a second hand diesel car for £13k, assuming that the diesel didn't require any major repairs and ignoring any residual value which will undoubtedly be higher on the EV. The MG has a 7 year warranty which covers all the expensive components.

I'm well aware of how to look after the brakes. You don't have to wear them out to keep them in good condition, just apply a reasonable amount of firm braking from time to time.

Grumpy_chap

I, too, have challenged the costs of EV's and how they can be made to work financially, however, I really consider that the following is the most absurd comparison for demonstrating that an EV is more expensive than the ICE counterpart:

SPlatten said:

I currently drive an Audi A5 2.0 TDI, the equivalent is a Tesla Model 3, starting price from £42,500.  I've never bought a new car and my Audi A5 2.0 TDI 2012 cost me £12,000 four years ago.   

It is entirely inappropriate to compare the price of a new car with the price of the same car at 4 or 5 years old.  In this context, how pointless would it be to write "An Audi A5 2.0 TDI Sportback brand new, starting price £40,500 is four times the price of an Audi A5 2.0 TDI Sportback 50k mile 2016 Audi A5 2.0 TDI"?  
https://www.uk.audi.com/uk/web/en/models/a5/a5-sportback/summary.html
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010165080602

In fact, all that comparison does is show how close the costs of the Tesla are to the Audi.  

As for:

SPlatten said:

@Petriix, what EV costs £23K, please quote.  

MG5 = £25k
Mini Electric £25k
Maybe Petrix negotiated a discount?

SPlatten

@Grump_chap, for those of us that want to choose an EV there isn't a used car market where you can buy an EV for a much lower price and even if there was if the batteries need replacing that's another high replacement cost.  I will look into the Mini.

EssexExile

SPlatten said:

@Grumpy_chap, that's not an exageration, 

How about comparing electric and petrol versions of the same model and the same age? E-Golf under £30,000, ICE Golf from £20,000.

SPlatten

@EssexExile, isn't that very difficult, I'm not talking about Hybrids, pure electric, they are still quite new.

Grumpy_chap

• Citroen C4 from £23k.  Electric from £32k.
• Corsa from £16.5k.  Electric from £27k
• Kia Niro from £25k.  Electric from £30k
• Mini from £16k.  Electric from £25k

Trim levels on electric are sometimes higher than base model with ICE.  None are 4 times the price for electric.