Electric car costs and additional costs

GunJack

You guys are talking silly money for a car,  as Grumpy_chap said:

SPlatten said:

I wanted to get opinions on how the car market is going which seems IMHO completely out of control. 

Yes, the car market is entirely out of control, and has been for a very long time.  This is not a question of EV versus ICE though.  Through a whole load of devious mechanisms, we have been conditioned into believing that a car is a product we should swap out every few years and pay as much as a mortgage for the pleasure. 

All rational assessment seems to go out of the window when it comes to cars yet they truly are simply tools to do a dirty job, just like a washing machine or lawn mower.  

whether it's ICE or EV, the amounts quoted on this thread for ONE car have probably been more than most of us would spend in a lifetime on cars. Where EVs are worse, is like someone mentioned earlier, get in a full-tank diesel ICE and you could go anywhere up to 600-ish miles without stopping. When you can pick up an EV for under £1000 that can do that, then they could be considered affordable... 

dipsomaniac

silverwhistle said:

dipsomaniac said:

You have to pay it to drive on the road. It's a road tax

You've already been informed that EVs and some other vehicles don't pay anything to be on the road. I won't ask you to wonder why that is or do your own research to save time and save us all here from your misinformation.. From the DVLA website:

For cars registered before 1 March 2001 the rate of vehicle tax depends on its engine size.

The rate for cars registered on or after 1 March 2001 depends on CO2 emissions and fuel type. They’ll be taxed using the old system if this information is not available.

I've bolded the important bit for you.

Very kind of you

I know some vehicles are CURRENTLY exempt from paying tax but they still need to be taxed. 

How crazy that people that can't afford ev have to pay higher tax to drive on the road?

Herzlos

GunJack said:

get in a full-tank diesel ICE and you could go anywhere up to 600-ish miles without stopping. When you can pick up an EV for under £1000 that can do that, then they could be considered affordable... 

That's a fairly odd and demanding metric. How often do you do a 600 mile drive without stopping?
Personally, I've never managed more than about 200 miles at a time.

GunJack

Herzlos said:

GunJack said:

get in a full-tank diesel ICE and you could go anywhere up to 600-ish miles without stopping. When you can pick up an EV for under £1000 that can do that, then they could be considered affordable... 

That's a fairly odd and demanding metric. How often do you do a 600 mile drive without stopping?
Personally, I've never managed more than about 200 miles at a time.

It's not the so much that you do that day in, day out, but it's the ability to do it should it be necessary. As someone mentioned earlier, lots of people do 400 mile round trips in a day for business meetings...easy in an ICE, with no garage stops in the day. Probably not possible in an EV, and especially not in an under-£1000 EV. The price differential between an ICE and EV for me would give me 6-7 year's-worth of fuel and VED, along with almost-zero depreciation, so with the leccy costs that would probably add another couple of years. And I'm one of the lucky ones who has a driveway on which to charge, should I ever in my lifetime have to have an EV.

silverwhistle

GunJack said:

 As someone mentioned earlier, lots of people do 400 mile round trips in a day for business meetings...easy in an ICE, with no garage stops in the day. Probably not possible in an EV, and especially not in an under-£1000 EV. The price differential between an ICE and EV for me would give me 6-7 year's-worth of fuel and VED, along with almost-zero depreciation, so with the leccy costs that would probably add another couple of years. And I'm one of the lucky ones who has a driveway on which to charge, should I ever in my lifetime have to have an EV.

I really think you overestimate the 'lots' of people who do such distances. Driving those distances is a waste of their time and very tiring, particularly on our crowded roads. If they are at all senior they'll go by train anyway and get some work in, or it's highly likely that they have a company car, and fleets are moving towards electric due to the tax advantages and possibly a degree of social conscience and the low maintenance. We appreciate that if you "have to have" an EV you'll be dragged kicking and screaming, but I really don't think there'll be many in such situations. When I worked in a large organisation and occasionally visited HO I had to use pool cars and avoided it if I possibly could. These post-Covid Zoom days business mileage has dropped off a cliff.

Petriix

A vanishingly small proportion of car journeys are over 100 miles. My EV will manage 300 miles with one 40 minute stop. If I was doing a 300 mile round trip then I would charge while at my destination.

If I had a job that required regularly driving further then I would invest in a longer range EV (with some combination of 100% special rate year 1 capital allowance and/or 0% BIK). At 2p per mile, the savings would rapidly offset the purchase price.

gzoom

SPlatten said:

@Grumpy_chap, what I want is for everyone to be able to afford the EV's and hopefully improve the world we live in, isn't that the whole point?  

Last time I checked the UK wasn't a communist state. Porsche makes some of the best cars around, why cannot we all have one? Surely that will improve everyone's life? Infact the Porsche Taycan is the best EV on the market bar none, why cannot I be given one for free?

EVs are now close to price parity of new cars, and used EVs are expensive because they are more in demand than combustion cars. New cars are expensive, regardless if they are EVs or not. 

Like it or not we live in a society governed by 'free market' forces and money (free or not). 

EVs are fantastic, they are nicer to drive, cheaper to own, but they are not going to reach the point of £500 bangers any time soon?

Is it fair only people who can afford EVs get to own them? Is it fair alot of social housing have pre pay energy meters which cost far more per unit of energy than normal meters? Is it fair if you can afford an accountant you can become fat more 'tax efficient' than people who cannot - EVs really help on that front!!

You are right, the biggest problem for EVs mass adoption is cost, but that isn't going to change anytime soon. It will eventually, remeber when flat screen TVs cost £5000+? But right now there is no point complaining about EV costs, you can either afford one or not, its how our world works - for better or worse. 

For me its very simple, if you are lucky enough to be able to afford a brand new car at the £30k+ mark buying an EV is a no brainer. Until the vast majority of new car buyers think the same way used EVs prices will not fall.

Supersonos

dipsomaniac said:

DrEskimo said:

dipsomaniac said:

DrEskimo said:

dipsomaniac said:

DrEskimo said:

dipsomaniac said:

5000 miles and you pay £0 VED at the moment?  At least you can't complain about the state of the roads.

I would be really worried if a 2 year old car didn't sail through the next 2 MOT's.

What happens at 8 years if the batteries cause too much range anxiety? How much do they cost to replace? Does the car get scrapped?

Yes I can. I still pay tax....

Why would I suddenly have range anxiety after 8yrs? It's lost 2% in 4yrs, so even if it for some reason accelerated and lost double that in the next two years (and all data suggests the complete opposite happens, that degradation is fastest in the first years, and then levels off), I would be at 94%....why on earth would I worry about replacing them at 94%?

That equates to an average loss of about 9miles of range, given that I average 150miles all year round.

How much does it cost to replace the batteries?

Range anxiety is a problem with ev. I can get in my £200 focus and drive anywhere in England without stopping. You can't do that in a £40k+ ev car

I don't know. 

that would have been my very first question before buying a ev car.

How much does an engine replacement cost?

Obviously depends on what engine you are replacing. In 30 years of driving I have never had to replace one.

You've had the same car for 30yrs and have never had to replace the engine??

AdrianC

Supersonos said:

dipsomaniac said:

DrEskimo said:

How much does an engine replacement cost?

Obviously depends on what engine you are replacing. In 30 years of driving I have never had to replace one.

You've had the same car for 30yrs and have never had to replace the engine??

We've owned one of our cars for 37 of its 39 years. It's still on the original engine.
Another one of ours has just turned 40. Still on the original engine.
Another is 43. Original engine.
Then there's the 59yo moped. Original engine.
All perfectly hale and hearty. Cylinder heads never been off any of them, as far as I can tell.
  
The 53yo moped is on the original engine, but it's in bits being very slowly rebuilt - some numpty clearly ran it with neat petrol instead of premix. No wear from too much use, just knackered bearings from abuse.

Herzlos

GunJack said:

Herzlos said:

GunJack said:

get in a full-tank diesel ICE and you could go anywhere up to 600-ish miles without stopping. When you can pick up an EV for under £1000 that can do that, then they could be considered affordable... 

That's a fairly odd and demanding metric. How often do you do a 600 mile drive without stopping?
Personally, I've never managed more than about 200 miles at a time.

It's not the so much that you do that day in, day out, but it's the ability to do it should it be necessary. As someone mentioned earlier, lots of people do 400 mile round trips in a day for business meetings...easy in an ICE, with no garage stops in the day. Probably not possible in an EV, and especially not in an under-£1000 EV. The price differential between an ICE and EV for me would give me 6-7 year's-worth of fuel and VED, along with almost-zero depreciation, so with the leccy costs that would probably add another couple of years. And I'm one of the lucky ones who has a driveway on which to charge, should I ever in my lifetime have to have an EV.

Not that many people do 3+ hour drives each direction for a meeting, but those ones are counter-intuitively the ones who'll benefit most from an EV. They get vastly reduced fuel and BIK costs.
What they'll do, if they need to recharge and cant do it at the site of the meeting, is leave 40 minutes earlier and do admin work in the coffee shop whilst the car is recharging. I don't know a single sales guy who doesn't have at least 30 mins of emails and paperwork to catch up on.

The £1000 is unreasonable for EVs yet, due to their age. There are plenty of EV/Hybrids appearing under about £5k, but give it another few years.