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Being Charged a restocking FEE Help! Paypal Credit
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doningtonphil said:The OP says it was an impulse buy, tht is the real root of his problem. Unless I am 100% sure I want to keep the goods I buy (subject to them not being damaged on arrival etc) I will always check what the retailer returns poilcy is - yes, I actually read the terms and conditions. If I am buying 2 items so I can decide which one I like the 'look of' best, then I will be sure I buy from a seller whose t&cs are nice and clear. It is possible they wont be the cheapest of sellers but that is probably because they are allowing for the cost of processing 'open box returns' - a low cost seller may have t&cs which cover some of their costs.
In business, a restocking fee is very common for returns of items. Again, this focuses the mind when deciding where to buy from.
I wish I had enough spare change in my back pocket to 'impulse buy' something for 700 quid
This is not emotion.....Its legal rights and fact I am interested in....0 -
msallen said:gags said:I will be refusing the refund at 21% reduction.....After reading these posts I was going to ask if I am legally able to get them to return the GFX card to me.....But I may find an emotional reply....rather than legal one
Most seem to be discussing what they deem is "right" as opposed to what the actual law says. For example, as far as I'm aware the law doesn't require you to return the item in its original packaging, yet we have posts talking about how charging over £100 for a missing bit of foam is supposedly reasonable...
The Consumer Contacts Regulations (2013), which I believe is the relevant legislation, states in section 34(9) that the consumer is allowed to "establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods" without penalty. I'm not quite sure how you'd be able to do that with a graphics card without opening the box? Unlike what someone else has said, although it may broadly be the intention behind the regulations, it has never said that "you can treat it like you would while in a shop".
I can completely understand why a shop would be irritated by people opening the box then returning, and also completely understand the moral argument in favour of charging for such a thing. However, all are completely irrelevant when discussing legal rights. My interpretation (and as far as I know, the interpretation of every major consumer organisation and the OFT) is that this restocking fee is illegal. I don't doubt for a second that PayPal will also agree if you dispute the purchase.
I'm certainly not a lawyer though (far from it!), so I'm very happy to be corrected if someone here knows more than me.0 -
callum9999 said:The Consumer Contacts Regulations (2013), which I believe is the relevant legislation, states in section 34(9) that the consumer is allowed to "establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods" without penalty. I'm not quite sure how you'd be able to do that with a graphics card without opening the box? Unlike what someone else has said, although it may broadly be the intention behind the regulations, it has never said that "you can treat it like you would while in a shop".
For the purposes of paragraph (9) handling is beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods if, in particular, it goes beyond the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop.
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gags said:Deleted_User said:£146.79 might be quite cheap if it had been damaged in transit due to lack of protection
Even with the part, it's still a second hand/open box sale that they will be unable to sell at full price so even with distance selling rules, you're highly unlikely to get an S75 full refund simply because you changed your mind after already opening it. Let's be honest, no-one buys a GPU, gets it, opens it and then suddenly changes their mind - there will be enough reason like your system isn't good enough to use it properly or the increase in performance wasn't enough
Oh and the FOS won't be interested, it's not a financial services disputeIt is a place of knowledge. The firm has a returns process, you returned the card without a protective part of the packing which could have led to damage to the card in transit, they have thus deducted their fee stated in the Ts & CsAs MSE guide tells you, they are quite within their rights to deduct money for returns that are opened unnecessarily.If you bought the card, then changed your mind, you wouldn't have even removed the foam - that shows you opened the package, took out the card and I suspect, fitted it in your PC, before deciding you didn't get the performance you wanted or made a mistake in ordering the wrong type of card or similar.
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callum9999 said:msallen said:gags said:I will be refusing the refund at 21% reduction.....After reading these posts I was going to ask if I am legally able to get them to return the GFX card to me.....But I may find an emotional reply....rather than legal one
Most seem to be discussing what they deem is "right" as opposed to what the actual law says. For example, as far as I'm aware the law doesn't require you to return the item in its original packaging, yet we have posts talking about how charging over £100 for a missing bit of foam is supposedly reasonable...
The Consumer Contacts Regulations (2013), which I believe is the relevant legislation, states in section 34(9) that the consumer is allowed to "establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods" without penalty. I'm not quite sure how you'd be able to do that with a graphics card without opening the box? Unlike what someone else has said, although it may broadly be the intention behind the regulations, it has never said that "you can treat it like you would while in a shop".
I can completely understand why a shop would be irritated by people opening the box then returning, and also completely understand the moral argument in favour of charging for such a thing. However, all are completely irrelevant when discussing legal rights. My interpretation (and as far as I know, the interpretation of every major consumer organisation and the OFT) is that this restocking fee is illegal. I don't doubt for a second that PayPal will also agree if you dispute the purchase.
I'm certainly not a lawyer though (far from it!), so I'm very happy to be corrected if someone here knows more than me.Why have you chosen to selectively quote the rule? You quote also indicates a misunderstood the wording of the law.34(9) actually covers the fact that the retailer IS allowed to deduct a cost, as they have done here, if the value of the goods is diminished as a result of the customer handling the goods beyond what is necessary. OP says it was an impulse purchase and they changed their mind. There was no reason for them to open the box in that situation, they could simply have returned it for a full refund. By opening it, taking the card out and doing anything more than plugging it into the PC and checking it worked, they have created a situation where the retailer is allowed to deduct some value from the refund. By returning it without protective foam, the card is potentially damaged and of less value for a sale for the shop, hence 34(9) actually allows them, legally, to reduce the refund.(9) If (in the case of a sales contract) the value of the goods is diminished by any amount as a result of handling of the goods by the consumer beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price.
(10) An amount that may be recovered under paragraph (9)—
(a)may be deducted from the amount to be reimbursed under paragraph (1);
(b)otherwise, must be paid by the consumer to the trader.Either way, I am sure OP will return in a few weeks and post how they got a full refund and the shop manager apologised, everyone clapped and they were given a free brand new system1 -
Deleted_User said:callum9999 said:msallen said:gags said:I will be refusing the refund at 21% reduction.....After reading these posts I was going to ask if I am legally able to get them to return the GFX card to me.....But I may find an emotional reply....rather than legal one
Most seem to be discussing what they deem is "right" as opposed to what the actual law says. For example, as far as I'm aware the law doesn't require you to return the item in its original packaging, yet we have posts talking about how charging over £100 for a missing bit of foam is supposedly reasonable...
The Consumer Contacts Regulations (2013), which I believe is the relevant legislation, states in section 34(9) that the consumer is allowed to "establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods" without penalty. I'm not quite sure how you'd be able to do that with a graphics card without opening the box? Unlike what someone else has said, although it may broadly be the intention behind the regulations, it has never said that "you can treat it like you would while in a shop".
I can completely understand why a shop would be irritated by people opening the box then returning, and also completely understand the moral argument in favour of charging for such a thing. However, all are completely irrelevant when discussing legal rights. My interpretation (and as far as I know, the interpretation of every major consumer organisation and the OFT) is that this restocking fee is illegal. I don't doubt for a second that PayPal will also agree if you dispute the purchase.
I'm certainly not a lawyer though (far from it!), so I'm very happy to be corrected if someone here knows more than me.Why have you chosen to selectively quote the rule? You quote also indicates a misunderstood the wording of the law.34(9) actually covers the fact that the retailer IS allowed to deduct a cost, as they have done here, if the value of the goods is diminished as a result of the customer handling the goods beyond what is necessary. OP says it was an impulse purchase and they changed their mind. There was no reason for them to open the box in that situation, they could simply have returned it for a full refund. By opening it, taking the card out and doing anything more than plugging it into the PC and checking it worked, they have created a situation where the retailer is allowed to deduct some value from the refund. By returning it without protective foam, the card is potentially damaged and of less value for a sale for the shop, hence 34(9) actually allows them, legally, to reduce the refund.(9) If (in the case of a sales contract) the value of the goods is diminished by any amount as a result of handling of the goods by the consumer beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price.
(10) An amount that may be recovered under paragraph (9)—
(a)may be deducted from the amount to be reimbursed under paragraph (1);
(b)otherwise, must be paid by the consumer to the trader.Either way, I am sure OP will return in a few weeks and post how they got a full refund and the shop manager apologised, everyone clapped and they were given a free brand new system
Well duh... That's the other side of the same coin. The reason why they've changed their mind is irrelevant - though your explanation is rather confusing given you're saying that taking it out of the box and plugging it in is fine - perhaps I've missed what they supposedly did if it goes further than that?
What complete and utter rubbish. Using that same logic they can refuse the entire refund because it's "potentially" broken. If it IS damaged they can deduct I agree, they can't just because it's "potentially" damaged... Just putting it in the post at all could "potentially" damage it.
I hope they do post the result of this - I don't believe for a second PayPal will decide a £140 charge for a piece of missing foam is legal or reasonable (not least because they're offering to return that too). If you genuinely do, more fool you.0 -
Consumer contracts: distance sales | Business Companion
The law is all in the link above. Note : impulse purchase or not is of course irrelevant. 2. you are allowed to do more than you would in a shop - in the example given you are allowed to take the shirt out of its box, remove the pins etc - you would not be allowed to do that in a shop.
To the OP: you are allowed to open the box, look at the card, and then return it for any reason whatsoever. You don't have to give the reason. You do not need to return the original packaging. They must not charge you a restocking fee unless eg you damaged the card as an example.0 -
jsmith9 said:Consumer contracts: distance sales | Business Companion
... You do not need to return the original packaging.
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I don't think you are interpreting the responses correctly. At least some of the responses are practical, rather than being "drenched in morality". The practical issue is that if you return a product with a part missing, it reduces the product's value. Now someone has to pay for that loss of value, and the simple fact is that it will be us, the ordinary consumer that pays. Retailers will raise their prices to account for people that impulse buy and return things incomplete. This is not a matter of morality.I'd still be interested to see where jsmith9 gets his/her "You do not need to return the original packaging". In the absence of that, I think you have to accept that you did not return what they sent to you, and that you will somehow have to resolve that with the supplier. I don't think (but I am happy to be proved wrong) that the law allows you to arbitrarily decide which bits of an item you wish to return, and which you don't.
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gags said:What I have done in my OP is to provide too much detail allowing people to deem an emotional response drenched in their own morality.
What I should have posted is
I bought an item from an online shop at a cost of £699
I requested an Return which was accepted.
The online shop received the return with a small bit of the packaging missing.
They want to deduct £146.79 as a restocking fee.
I paid by PayPal credit.
What are my options...
HTH.1
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