Noisey neighbours, friendly advice on what to do.

Zoe1345

lookstraightahead said:

I live in an apartment and we are always careful. I used to live near a main road but moved as I got to the point where I thought cars shouldn't be on it - best things  ever did before i went completely bonkers! 
To be honest you say when you are trying to sleep - my husband works nights and no one thinks of that, so folks TVs in the day and drilling work etc disturb him, but I can't expect them to stop. It's up to your neighbours when the shower / sleep etc.

I would move personally. Or move rooms and just make do with single sleep.

I entirely understand what you are saying about your husband, I grew up in a house with a dad that worked nights, so am aware of how frustrating that can be noise wise. Perhaps that why I have a higher degree of consideration for my neighbours then they seem to for us. However, I would argue that there is a difference between mid-day noise and the unfortunatness of nightshift work, and middle of the night excessive noise. Even the law sees this, that's why there's a reason we have environmental health restrictions on noise between 11pm and 7am. But this is neither here nor there. Perhaps I should give up my 9 - 5 profession and start a night shift job, as they seem to struggle far less with the doors, the stairs, and hearing each other in the middle of the day then they do at 2am 

lookstraightahead

The other thing is people just don't see things the same. I pester about my noise making but my brother and his wife don't understand why I worry so much about others.

 They're going to take either two routes - one is to be uncomfortable in their own house, the other is to make you uncomfortable. They sound like they will do the latter. I feel your pain though.

trex227

I don’t think there’s any point trying to find out if the previous owner had issues with the noise due to the fact it was a probate sale. Even if you get the neighbours to confirm they had a dispute with the previous owner over the noise, how would you prove the executors who sold the property were aware? Probate sales are often limited title guarantee on the basis the seller doesn’t have personal knowledge of the property so unless there is some documented evidence involving the executor in the dispute I don’t think there will be any legal recourse there 

Zoe1345

lookstraightahead said:

The other thing is people just don't see things the same. I pester about my noise making but my brother and his wife don't understand why I worry so much about others.

 They're going to take either two routes - one is to be uncomfortable in their own house, the other is to make you uncomfortable. They sound like they will do the latter. I feel your pain though.

What baffles me is how they all then get up and work in the morning? How their teenage daughter can be up until 2am and then at school for 8. I had a conversation with the Dad a few weeks ago where he mentioned her grades weren't doing so well - he blamed Covid - I'd argue that perhaps a better schedule for her and some additional sleep might do wonders!? (Of course I would never say this to him!)

I agree, yes, of course anyone is less likely to make themselves uncomfortable. But I'm not sure the necessity and comfort in slamming doors at midnight and running a marathon up your stairs at 2am, when you manage just fine without these things during the day 

Again, this thread was not about asking for justification for them being in the wrong or me in the right. It was a call for advice about next steps and how we should now approach dealing with it in light of wanting to sell (we of course now want to sell quicker to be away form it), and in fact also not fall out with them - perhaps my 3am writing wasn't so clear? We've put a fair amount of money into the house (including the soundproofing), but are now concerned due to the noise from the neighbours we will have to sell at a mark down and not recoup it; or not mention it at all / or downplay it and risk possible legal action from our buyers later on - should they decide we were negligent in not telling them. I genuinely believe anyone living in the house would take issue with the noise - but hey, perhaps I am wrong. My husband does manage to sleep through some of it if he is already in a deep enough sleep when it starts... but is flabbergasted that he manages to when he hears it awake or is woken by it. A

Had we been aware of their nocturnal activities, we would not have bought. When we asked about the neighbours all we were told was that there was a good relationship and they were really nice people - half true at least. We were not informed they were a tribe of vampire elephants.

warby68

Sorry the word 'martyr' was perhaps a little harsh - what I meant was the mindset where you feel there's nothing you can (or should) do and have to suffer. You didn't mention you'd tried your own fixes at first, just going home to parents.
Its not that I don't agree that its inconsiderate to make a lot of household noise in the early hours as a general thing. Its just very difficult to challenge someone for going upstairs or having a shower at any time and also not something you could really blame a previous owner for not disclosing. Noise is so very subjective. There are very few satisfactory resolutions if your neighbours haven't responded at first request, other than moving.
I also wonder what difference the pandemic is making - their lifestyle might be a bit different when we get back to more normal times. Showers might precede work or going out rather than last thing before bed and the current night owls might have to get up for work again.

Zoe1345

trex227 said:

I don’t think there’s any point trying to find out if the previous owner had issues with the noise due to the fact it was a probate sale. Even if you get the neighbours to confirm they had a dispute with the previous owner over the noise, how would you prove the executors who sold the property were aware? Probate sales are often limited title guarantee on the basis the seller doesn’t have personal knowledge of the property so unless there is some documented evidence involving the executor in the dispute I don’t think there will be any legal recourse there 

Yes this was the way I was thinking in this respect. Plausible deniability. There are a number of issues we have faced that the sellers didn't declare, yet we have put it down to them having recourse to deny knowledge. I do know that the sellers (the owners children) knew the neighbours well, and it seems they were also caught up in the "great falling out" that we have been made aware of. Any opinion on what approach we should take when we sell? We really cannot take much of a financial hit due to this. 

Zoe1345

warby68 said:

Sorry the word 'martyr' was perhaps a little harsh - what I meant was the mindset where you feel there's nothing you can (or should) do and have to suffer. You didn't mention you'd tried your own fixes at first, just going home to parents.
Its not that I don't agree that its inconsiderate to make a lot of household noise in the early hours as a general thing. Its just very difficult to challenge someone for going upstairs or having a shower at any time and also not something you could really blame a previous owner for not disclosing. Noise is so very subjective. There are very few satisfactory resolutions if your neighbours haven't responded at first request, other than moving.
I also wonder what difference the pandemic is making - their lifestyle might be a bit different when we get back to more normal times. Showers might precede work or going out rather than last thing before bed and the current night owls might have to get up for work again.

Not to worry - my 3 am rambling were certainly not as clear as they could have been! That's the desperate state I have reached at play. 
I entirely agree. Its very hard to challenge, especially as they are, otherwise, such a nice family, and we certainly have no desire to fall out with them. Interesting you say that you wouldn't blame the previous owners for disclosing. If that is indeed the consensus and attitude then I can, arguably, stop worrying about what I should or shouldn't declare when we sell. I agree it is so subjective - but I do, in all honesty question how anyone would not be incredibly frustrated with this, and at their witts end. Except maybe a blind drunk ... or a deaf person (although the earth shattering vibrations would still have some effect!). Especially when we have already been taking all the possible solutions we can, and any future occupant could. 
I do wonder how much Covid has changed their activity. Its certainly worse too when the son is home from Uni. We moved in in July (we bought in Dec but spent the beginning of the year renovating kitchen and bathrooms), so I guess we havent experienced it outside covid times. Alas, if we a due to remain in "covid times" until March, I'm not sure my mental of  physical health will suffice! Heading to my parents for a few nights sleep each week might be my ony course of action! 

Norman_Castle

Zoe1345 said:

 judging by the fact that everyone thinks this is normal behaviour

I don't, they sound like selfish ignoramuses. Try keeping a diary for a week then show it to them explaining every noise and how it wakes you through the night. Can you record their noise for them to hear? Ask what noise they hear from you. Explain you have installed extra soundproofing and there is nothing else you can do to avoid their noise. They need to understand they are the problem. Don't let them make excuses.

Is there anything that could be done in their home to lessen the noise, damping between doors and frames etc?

What do the neighbours on the other side think about their noise?

warby68

Blame as in 'make it stick' but I'd certainly have a few choice words going through my head, especially if we'd had a chat about 'what the neighbours are like'.
And honestly people do have very widely varying thresholds for noise - my husband can sleep through anything, I'm awake at the slightest thing so unfortunately it isn't a given that what bothers you will also bother others.
The hard thing is once you obsess about it you make it worse, as you are simply waiting for the noise all the time and actually keeping yourself awake. Its really tough to shift though. I'd protect your sleep, even if it means a night or two on the sofa or away from home, pop round a couple more times to ask 'nicely' and make plans for your next move.

Zoe1345

Norman_Castle said:

Zoe1345 said:

 judging by the fact that everyone thinks this is normal behaviour

I don't, they sound like selfish ignoramuses. Try keeping a diary for a week then show it to them explaining every noise and how it wakes you through the night. Can you record their noise for them to hear? Explain you have installed extra soundproofing and there is nothing else you can do to avoid their noise. They need to understand they are the problem. Don't let them make excuses.

Is there anything that could be done in their home to lessen the noise, damping between doors and frames etc?

What do the neighbours on the other side think about their noise?

I'd prefer to stick with inconsiderate, but thanks for seeing my frustration and at least not dismissing me as being over sensitive . I have toyed with the diary idea. But, I wonder how far I should take this with the prospect of selling up in a year, and what I will have to declare to buyers? Popping over and asking them to keep the noise down is one thing, writing up a full diary of noise nuisance to them I'd say is heading towards a formal step, and if a buyer had issues and were to know we did this, then that might be an issue if we haven't declared it on the PIF. I'm also not sure how much difference this will make in all honesty.

They could certainly put some carpet back on their stairs if they wanted to help, or indeed look at soundproofing the hallway and bathroom wall  - I mean I would NEVER expect this, unless I was footing the bill for them to have a new bathroom, which alas I cannot afford to. They could also not shower at 2am or slam doors, and maybe walk up their stairs not run - all free options. All things already requested of them to no avail.