The EV announcement - How will you act now The Quiz.

Herzlos

thegentleway said:

Except if you want a sports car!

It depends on what you want in a sports car. If it's the noise then absolutely, but torque from electric motors is incredible so the performance is far in excess of what you'd expect and electric cars can leave most performance cars in the dust at lights.

They are pretty heavy which makes the acceleration even more impressive.
All of the bigger sports car brands have or at looking at electrification.

thegentleway said:

I’d like to have an EV but can’t charge at home and walk to work. I use car to drive to gyms which don’t have chargers, nor does my local ALDI. Would be really inconvenient for me to have an EV.

...for now. I bet that by the time this announcement kicks in, you'll have a charger at Aldi and the gym.

NBLondon

Grumpy_chap said:

Still, using "not sporty enough" as a reason to dismiss electric vehicles doesn't really stand up.
Tesla roadster (1.9 sec) beats the Ferrari (2.9)
Tesla 3 Performance (3.1) beats the BMW M2 Competition (4.4)

Only if you insist that this is the only criteria for "sporty"...    There's handling as well and lots of unquantifiable stuff about looks and image and feel.

Thought: if Tesla ran a 3 in BTCC - how would that fare?

AdrianC

If power, acceleration times, and top speed are the sole criteria for "sporty", then...

...THIS is considerably more "sporty"...

...than THIS...


...7x the power, 25% quicker acceleration, and electronically limited top speed more than 50% faster... how can that NOT be "sportier", right?

...and I very much doubt anybody is really trying to claim that's the case, not with a straight face.

So, please, don't try and claim that a damn-near-two-ton mid-size hatchback is somehow one of the most "sporty" cars you can buy from a showroom today this side of a Ferrari. Not if you want any credibility.

Herzlos

Lets face it, by "sporty" most people in the UK mean "can race away from traffic lights and overtake other cars". Otherwise we'd have a much bigger track day culture.

We'll start to see lower end sporty stuff appear, your smaller coupes etc, as the market demands it.
Incidentally, the race-modified version of the Tesla 3 seem to be doing pretty well - https://electrek.co/2020/07/28/tesla-model-3-race-car-breaks-track-record-sets-pikes-peak/

There's no reason it wouldn't with suitable suspension setup.

(I was sure either Caterham or Morgan was looking at an EV - with a motor in each wheel hub it was performing amazingly)

AdrianC

Herzlos said:

...
Otherwise we'd have a much bigger track day culture.

...
Incidentally, the race-modified version of the Tesla 3 seem to be doing pretty well - https://electrek.co/2020/07/28/tesla-model-3-race-car-breaks-track-record-sets-pikes-peak/

Not "race". They've done no more than put some of their own aftermarket street-legal go-faster goodies on, and organised a series of trackdays...

And they say they're going to make an attempt at a hillclimb. Again, that's not racing.
Presumably, they'll be gunning for the "production car" record there? It's currently held by...

Bentley... With a production-spec two-and-a-half-ton luxury waftmobile.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/bentley-continental-gt-breaks-pikes-peak-production-record

They aren't stupid...
They've deliberately chosen something that provides a big artificial benefit to them.

Why such a big advantage? Not only because weight clearly isn't a disadvantage, but primarily because Pikes Peak is very, very high altitude - the course climbs 1,400m (more than the total height of Ben Nevis) to over 4,300m - which badly compromises power for internal combustion engines because the air is so thin. That's one reason the Bentley record is an average speed of only <70mph - about the same time as the outright record set in the second half of the 1980s... when the course was still dirt, before it was tarmac'd...
It's also a good reason why the outright Pikes Peak record has been held by an electric car for the last three years...

By comparison, the highest road in the UK is 670m altitude, and the highest in England and Wales are <600m.
The highest in Europe is about the same as the start altitude, just under 3,000m, while the summit of Mont Blanc is about 4,800m - and there's only about 6 or 7 Alpine summits higher than that Pikes Peak finish line. We simply don't get topography like that in Europe, let alone the UK.

AdrianC

And, yes, Morgan were waving EV versions of the three-wheeler around. They never went near production, though.

thegentleway

Herzlos said:

thegentleway said:

Except if you want a sports car!

It depends on what you want in a sports car. If it's the noise then absolutely, but torque from electric motors is incredible so the performance is far in excess of what you'd expect and electric cars can leave most performance cars in the dust at lights.

They are pretty heavy which makes the acceleration even more impressive.
All of the bigger sports car brands have or at looking at electrification.

I want 2 seats, rwd, and good handling. Don't care about torque. Care a lot about weight, has to be light. Sound is important as well.

Herzlos said:

thegentleway said:

I’d like to have an EV but can’t charge at home and walk to work. I use car to drive to gyms which don’t have chargers, nor does my local ALDI. Would be really inconvenient for me to have an EV.

...for now. I bet that by the time this announcement kicks in, you'll have a charger at Aldi and the gym.

Can't wait. I'll buy one then. I'd really like an EV as the daily/family car - just not as my sports car

Herzlos said:

Lets face it, by "sporty" most people in the UK mean "can race away from traffic lights and overtake other cars". Otherwise we'd have a much bigger track day culture.

I agree that's what most people care about so EVs are fine for them. But I'm not talking about "sporty". I'm talking about sports cars, the worlds best selling one is the MX-5. There's currently no EV for that market. I'm sure there will be and I look forward to it.
There is already a big track day culture in the UK with events every weekend across the country

Herzlos

AdrianC said:

Herzlos said:

...
Otherwise we'd have a much bigger track day culture.

...
Incidentally, the race-modified version of the Tesla 3 seem to be doing pretty well - https://electrek.co/2020/07/28/tesla-model-3-race-car-breaks-track-record-sets-pikes-peak/

Not "race". They've done no more than put some of their own aftermarket street-legal go-faster goodies on, and organised a series of trackdays...

Ok, does the Nurburgring count as an idea of sporty cars?
Because the 2nd faster ever vehicle was electric, beaten only by a petrol/electric hybrid:
1 - Porsche 919 Hybrid Evo - 5:19:546
2 - Volkswagen ID R - 6:05:336
3 - Porsche 956 - 6:11.13
4 - Porsche 956 - 6:16.85
5 - Porsche 956 - 6:25.91

Electric is the future for performance vehicles, though roadsters will likely be the last ones to convert because weight and sound is important. Just don't expect to overtake many electric hatchbacks with one

AdrianC

Herzlos said:

Ok, does the Nurburgring count as an idea of sporty cars?

You REALLY don't understand the point being made, do you?

Because the 2nd faster ever vehicle was electric, beaten only by a petrol/electric hybrid:
1 - Porsche 919 Hybrid Evo - 5:19:546
2 - Volkswagen ID R - 6:05:336
3 - Porsche 956 - 6:11.13
4 - Porsche 956 - 6:16.85
5 - Porsche 956 - 6:25.91

Do you even know what a 956 is? They were dominant at Le Mans from the early 1980s onwards...

Meanwhile, what's the lap record for one of St Elon's flying-ego-massages? An unofficial 7.23 from a very-much non-standard Model S last year - somewhere around the kind of times that stuff like production-spec Nissan GT-Rs and Corvettes were putting up a decade ago. 30 seconds behind road-legal track-day toys like Radicals a decade and a half ago.

Electric is the future for performance vehicles

Electric is the future for ALL vehicles. Only a fool would argue otherwise. But not because of performance that is already into the realms of unusability on public roads from even very prosaic stuff.

Anyway, I thought we were talking about today's realities?

Herzlos

AdrianC said:

Herzlos said:

Ok, does the Nurburgring count as an idea of sporty cars?

You REALLY don't understand the point being made, do you?

Not when the goalposts keep being moved

AdrianC said:

Electric is the future for ALL vehicles. Only a fool would argue otherwise.

Glad you finally agree, hopefully you won't spend much more time trying to argue otherwise

AdrianC said:

Anyway, I thought we were talking about today's realities?

I am. The current 2nd fastest vehicle round the Nurburgring ever was battery powered.

I've already agreed that there's no EV in the MX-5 bracket yet, but batteries are starting to dominate everything else. They'll never sound right though.