The EV announcement - How will you act now The Quiz.

DrEskimo

Grumpy_chap said:

Current used values of EV's is high because of short supply of new EV's (because of the batteries availability), which cascades down to unrealistic used prices.  Personally, I would not buy a used EV because of there being no way to know whether the battery has been cared for or killed and no battery means "write-off" replacement.

In January this year, I enquired to Kia for a Niro EV only to be told that they cannot source a car for demo or test drive until August at the earliest but that would only be possible if I placed an order.  The dealer explained that with such a waiting list, if he could get a demo, he would sell it and take the profit.
Hyundai gave an equally poor service with regard to the Kona, I was advised I could place an order and pay deposit and take a test drive when my car arrived in September and if I didn't like it, then he'd simply sell it to someone else, but the deposit is non-refundable.
Atrocious service, no wonder the online sites do well.  With what turned out, I'm glad not to have committed though.  One assumes next year will not have the same type of upheaval as 2020.

The short supply of EVs is long gone....I don't know any EV that is in short supply.

Go on AT. There are >60 new, nearly new and used Niro's. Even more Kona's (250+).
Your worries about used EVs is completely unwarranted too. What are you worried about, and how much damage do you think can be done to a battery in such a short space of time? You can even get a battery health report before you buy. Precisely what I did when I bought mine used. 99% SoH. 2-yrs on, it's at 98% SoH. It will also have a 8-yr warranty!
 
I suggest you go to a different dealer. Unfortunately atrocious dealers is not an EV specific problem, but is exacerbated by salespeople with poor EV knowledge....

Keep_pedalling

DrEskimo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

DrEskimo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

BUT, actually, it is even worse, because to get a car equivalent to the £23k petrol Citroen, 400 mile range, I need a £50k Tesla.

Even a £50k Tesla wouldn't do 400miles. I guess the more pertinent questions is do you need it to? £25k would get you a Zoe or ID3 that would happily do 200miles+.

At present, I don't need any car given lockdown means such a low mileage.

If things return to normal, my daily commute was 70 miles each way, so 140 mile round trip.  Motorway, all weathers.  I looked at the ID3 webpage yesterday evening, because it has a high reported range ("up to 336 miles") but go to the range calculator and change to "normal" driving style, and 5 degC, and that range drops to barely achieve my daily commute.

Achieve the daily commute without charging is essential and, I think, reasonable.  A charge stop of 30-45 minutes seems OK on a long drive (where you should be taking a coffee / toilet break so would be stopped anyway), but to force a stop every day to my drive home is just too much.  There is work-place charging, but £32p/kwh makes it as pricey as ICE fuel costs and there is a charge of £20/half hour if you stay on the charger once full.  I understand why that is, but you are at work to work, not fill the car with energy and, if you are in a meeting, missing that "fully charged" status is easy to do.  Not many half-hour penalties at £20 to ruin any financial incentives.

Please don't think I don't want to go EV, I just can't seem to find a way to make the finances work.

That sounds awfully pessimistic....

I can't find this calculator, but the ID3 has a 58kWh useable battery, so efficiency would have to be as low as 2.4miles/kWh to only do 140miles. I haven't even seen that in minus temps with my Zoe. The ID3 happens to also be a very efficient EV.

I would be very surprised if you can only manage 150miles in a full charge in even the most extreme weathers.

As above, your workplace charging needs serious overhaul and development too....those terms are ridiculous. They need lots of slow chargers. Even 3pin sockets would be fine....that would give you around 10miles of range per hour, so given a typically work day of 8hours that would be more than enough for most just to top up.

There is some real world data from motorway driving on this link, which suggest you will get around 190 miles range at 68mph, for the 58kW ID 3. The 336 mile quoted by VW is for the larger 77kW model which should achieve 250 miles at those speeds.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/11/21/real-life-ev-range-test-compilation-by-the-danish-motorist-association-fdm/
I will almost certainly be swapping out my GTE for the ID 3 next year.

Grumpy_chap

DrEskimo said:

The short supply of EVs is long gone....I don't know any EV that is in short supply.

I just phoned Kia who told me the waiting list has now come down from 14 months to 12 months - they are apparently catching up on the back-log of orders through lockdown (???).

Fortunately, the Kia is not the most desirable EV, but atrocious service either way.  In 12-months, the Ford Mach-E will likely be available...

DrEskimo

Grumpy_chap said:

DrEskimo said:

The short supply of EVs is long gone....I don't know any EV that is in short supply.

I just phoned Kia who told me the waiting list has now come down from 14 months to 12 months - they are apparently catching up on the back-log of orders through lockdown (???).

Fortunately, the Kia is not the most desirable EV, but atrocious service either way.  In 12-months, the Ford Mach-E will likely be available...

Could you contact this dealer. They suggest they have a nearly new model in stock on CarWow?

https://quotes.carwow.co.uk/stock_cars/22708049?car_configuration_id=24575139

Or as mentioned, save a few more grand and get a barely used one. This one has done <6,000 miles. Any concerns about battery abuse are just not going to apply with such a low mileage.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010155034035

UPDATE: I've just gone on SpeakEV and the Kia Niro sub forum and there are users who have ordered in July and even end of November and are collecting their brand new orders this month. Shop around!

Grumpy_chap

We do come back to the appalling service issue again.

If I am to part with a substantial amount of my wealth, then the process needs to be easy and make me feel valued.
When my local Kia dealer span the line this afternoon that they have "been lucky to secure 200 cars to be shipped to them through the course of 2021, which are all sold, they hope to secure more for delivery through 2022 and if I order now I could be sure to be front of the line for that shipment", what is a consumer supposed to think?

The dealer may think this is a way of ensuring no discounts are required, by rolling the line of "limited supply, great demand", but it also works to drive business away altogether.  I can't be the only person to hear that line and decide not to bother as the current car still works just fine.

I also think that, as the realities of coronavirus finances hit, the car industry will be desperate for sales.  There seem to be a high number of "20" and "70" plate vehicles on the road, but I do not see the certainty that confidence will continue to "21" and "71" plate.

Ganga

Are electric cars not cheaper to service than petrol/diesel cars ? with no engine oil and filters servicing electrics must be a hell of a lot cheaper.

victor2

So when the government start losing all that fuel duty, when will the VAT on domestic electricity go up from the 5% it currently sits at?  Plus the companies who build the nice new nuclear power stations we need will want a good return on their investment, so energy tariffs will increase. The more so as gas usage is reduced by government legislation

Potentially wipes out a significant part of the cost savings EVs currently offer.

DrEskimo

Ganga said:

Are electric cars not cheaper to service than petrol/diesel cars ? with no engine oil and filters servicing electrics must be a hell of a lot cheaper.

It's a bit mixed. For my Zoe it's only £60 for a service from the main dealer. But then they insist on brake fluid changes and battery coolant changes. These can be quite expensive at around £150-200. However I don't see the need to change them unless they need it, so have not any done.

victor2 said:

So when the government start losing all that fuel duty, when will the VAT on domestic electricity go up from the 5% it currently sits at?  Plus the companies who build the nice new nuclear power stations we need will want a good return on their investment, so energy tariffs will increase. The more so as gas usage is reduced by government legislation

Potentially wipes out a significant part of the cost savings EVs currently offer.

I highly doubt this is what will happen. Fuel poverty is already a huge problem.

Most likely it will be miles based. My advice....get in whilst the going is good!

Grumpy_chap

DrEskimo said:

My advice....get in whilst the going is good!

Very sound

AdrianC

Grumpy_chap said:

If I am to part with a substantial amount of my wealth, then the process needs to be easy and make me feel valued.

It depends on whether you prioritise the actual product you end up with, or the warm-and-fuzzy from the purchasing.
One of them lasts long after the other is forgotten.

When my local Kia dealer span the line this afternoon that they have "been lucky to secure 200 cars to be shipped to them through the course of 2021, which are all sold, they hope to secure more for delivery through 2022 and if I order now I could be sure to be front of the line for that shipment", what is a consumer supposed to think?

The main takeaway from that, for me, is "If I place an order now, I probably won't get the car for a year."
I would have to REALLY want that particular car to not just shrug, walk away, and buy something else.