The EV announcement - How will you act now The Quiz.

Uxb1

NBLondon said:

That's a 15 minute stop for us.  If you could be reasonably sure of getting a charger at your parking space; plugging in for a top-up while you do everything else and then get back on the road with an extra 100 miles range then it works.  If you have to wait an unspecified time for a charger to come free - your 15 min stop becomes 45 or more.  If you are on your own - you can't go for a pee while you wait or someone will jump the queue for the charger.

Likewise - except my 15 minutes rest, stretch, pee and a bite to eat/thermos of tea is in a rural layby/rough verge just off an A-road.  The place has never seen an electric supply in the history of the planet and is never likely to.

Freecall

DrEskimo said:

But then they insist on brake fluid changes and battery coolant changes. These can be quite expensive at around £150-200. However I don't see the need to change them unless they need it, so have not any done.

 Don't forget that standard (Glycol-ether) brake fluid is hygroscopic.

Regular replacement (usually every 24 months) is essential for safety.

NBLondon

DrEskimo said:

The other thing to bare in mind is that EVs will not be fuelled like current ICE. The entire mindset and behaviour is different because the vast majority will be charging at home or work (or when out and about) at slower rates. 

Hang on Doc - that's an assumption based on the people who run EC now...  Being able to charge slowly at home or at work is possibly part of the decision to change.   As I've pointed out before - I don't have off-road parking at home.  My workplace is either at home (thanks to COVID) or an office on the other side of London with no car park.   There is a car park at the Sheffield office so I could consider driving on my monthly trips... but it isn't big enough for al the people who regularly work there so if I roll off the M1 with the meter at 1%; the chances of getting the one charger that the landlord might have installed for the kudos are about the same!

I don't use my car to nip to the shops (I can walk that) or the cinema or anywhere else that might have lots of public chargers.  I use it for cross-country trips to see family or for holidays.  So all of my charging would have to be either pre-planned as part of the route or part of another activity - it doesn't have as much freedom to take up e.g. an impromptu dinner invite from the cousins in deepest Thanet (That's 145 miles round trip - but if the trip computer says I don't have enough petrol, I know I can fill up in less than 10 minutes at any of a dozen points along the way).   But if Gridserve https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/07/uk-first-all-electric-car-charging-forecourt-opens-in-essex  does get 100 stations underway in the next 5 years - that's the gamechanger for me.

DrEskimo

NBLondon said:

DrEskimo said:

The other thing to bare in mind is that EVs will not be fuelled like current ICE. The entire mindset and behaviour is different because the vast majority will be charging at home or work (or when out and about) at slower rates. 

Hang on Doc - that's an assumption based on the people who run EC now...  Being able to charge slowly at home or at work is possibly part of the decision to change.   As I've pointed out before - I don't have off-road parking at home.  My workplace is either at home (thanks to COVID) or an office on the other side of London with no car park.   There is a car park at the Sheffield office so I could consider driving on my monthly trips... but it isn't big enough for al the people who regularly work there so if I roll off the M1 with the meter at 1%; the chances of getting the one charger that the landlord might have installed for the kudos are about the same!

I don't use my car to nip to the shops (I can walk that) or the cinema or anywhere else that might have lots of public chargers.  I use it for cross-country trips to see family or for holidays.  So all of my charging would have to be either pre-planned as part of the route or part of another activity - it doesn't have as much freedom to take up e.g. an impromptu dinner invite from the cousins in deepest Thanet (That's 145 miles round trip - but if the trip computer says I don't have enough petrol, I know I can fill up in less than 10 minutes at any of a dozen points along the way).   But if Gridserve https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/07/uk-first-all-electric-car-charging-forecourt-opens-in-essex  does get 100 stations underway in the next 5 years - that's the gamechanger for me.

Couldn't agree more. My point was how many people are like you that would rely exclusively on those large motorway based rapid chargers? I genuinely don't know the answer to know what the demand (and therefore how much of a logistical nightmare) will be on large scale rapid chargers like gridserve.

The thing to remember is that there are many more options that I didn't even know about before I bought my EV. I could have never foreseen the way I run my EV, whereby most of my charging is done at my parents who I visit weekly, using the local carpark charger as I go for my run/gym/shopping, or just when I visit other places. 

As they become widespread, I'm sure your lovely cousins in Thanet if they have a driveway would have no issues with you plugging in to their charger over dinner. I mean it costs like £3/4!

I certainly hope the motorway facilities improve (along with many other aspects of charging, it really needs to tackle all types of charging), as being able to comfortably, say, visit Cornwall with my Zoe would be great. Right now I probably wouldn't on two counts: My Zoe only has 22kWh Type 2 charging, and the public infrastructure outside of Tesla is just too unreliable....

NBLondon

DrEskimo said:

Couldn't agree more. My point was how many people are like you that would rely exclusively on those large motorway based rapid chargers? I genuinely don't know the answer to know what the demand (and therefore how much of a logistical nightmare) will be on large scale rapid chargers like gridserve.

It's rather chicken and egg isn't it?  I'm not an "early adopter" in general so I'm not likely to go all-electric until the infrastructure appears feasible and the supplier side is possibly hanging back until they have a better idea of the demand.   Those who do have the options or can make it work are reaping the benefits.  You could well be right that those who have home charging would be happy to let visitors jump on it for an hour.   I bet it would also end up as a Money Saving Dilemma about whether to charge them

AdrianC

NBLondon said:

Those who ... can make it work are reaping the benefits.

Don't forget that free charging at work is a taxable benefit in kind.

You could well be right that those who have home charging would be happy to let visitors jump on it for an hour.   I bet it would also end up as a Money Saving Dilemma about whether to charge them

"Hello, mum, I've popped round to see you - before you put the kettle in, can I plug my car in again?" - no, I can't see that being thrown back in every single family disagreement ever...

It would be massively cheeky, at best, to expect to be able to just charge on somebody else's coin indefinitely. 15p/kWh, 60% charge in a 22kWh Leaf = £2 for about 50 miles. Not a lot in itself, but if you're banking on it a couple of times a week...

Via a 3kW 13A plug, that's going to take 4.5hrs. Are you inviting yourself round for dinner every couple of days, or are you leaving it plugged in and walking home...? Or are you expecting them to install a fast charger for your benefit, too?

AdrianC

On a slightly different note...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/dec/08/the-curse-of-white-oil-electric-vehicles-dirty-secret-lithium

DrEskimo

AdrianC said:

NBLondon said:

Those who ... can make it work are reaping the benefits.

Don't forget that free charging at work is a taxable benefit in kind.

You could well be right that those who have home charging would be happy to let visitors jump on it for an hour.   I bet it would also end up as a Money Saving Dilemma about whether to charge them

"Hello, mum, I've popped round to see you - before you put the kettle in, can I plug my car in again?" - no, I can't see that being thrown back in every single family disagreement ever...

It would be massively cheeky, at best, to expect to be able to just charge on somebody else's coin indefinitely. 15p/kWh, 60% charge in a 22kWh Leaf = £2 for about 50 miles. Not a lot in itself, but if you're banking on it a couple of times a week...

Via a 3kW 13A plug, that's going to take 4.5hrs. Are you inviting yourself round for dinner every couple of days, or are you leaving it plugged in and walking home...? Or are you expecting them to install a fast charger for your benefit, too?

Haha! To be clear, I paid for the charger at my parents and also upgraded their entire consumer unit. They are of course more than happy to let me charge every couple of weeks when I visit.

But yes, I wouldn't use it as a long term charging solution. My point is if a few times in the year you visit friends who happen to live beyond the full range of the EV, it probably wouldn't be that much of an issue to plug it in for even just an hour or two to gain those extra miles to be confident you can get home again well within the cars usage. I mean, even my 41kWh Zoe could manage 140miles, so in winter I may opt for 20/30miles extra, which would be around 7kW.

As EV ownership grows, more and more will have fast chargers. Sometimes, when I visit my brother for example, he has a public Polar charger just a couple of streets down from him. I have on occasion parked there and plugged in when I visit. At £0.18/kWh it's not too different to home charging rates either.

victor2

DrEskimo said:

...
But yes, I wouldn't use it as a long term charging solution. My point is if a few times in the year you visit friends who happen to live beyond the full range of the EV, it probably wouldn't be that much of an issue to plug it in for even just an hour or two to gain those extra miles to be confident you can get home again well within the cars usage. I mean, even my 41kWh Zoe could manage 140miles, so in winter I may opt for 20/30miles extra, which would be around 7kW....

I know of someone who bought his EV, went to see a friend who agreed to let him charge at their house. Plugged it in, having found an extension lead, and it tripped the house power supply. A little bizarrely perhaps, they couldn't get it to switch back on and it took a visit by an electrician the following day to sort it out.

Don't know the full details, but EVs do take a significant amount of power. I've seen a coiled up extension lead melt because too much current was drawn through it over a period of time, but not enough to blow the fuse.

Of course, I suppose you could always carry an extension lead with you, and make sure you fully unwind it when used...

DrEskimo

victor2 said:

DrEskimo said:

...
But yes, I wouldn't use it as a long term charging solution. My point is if a few times in the year you visit friends who happen to live beyond the full range of the EV, it probably wouldn't be that much of an issue to plug it in for even just an hour or two to gain those extra miles to be confident you can get home again well within the cars usage. I mean, even my 41kWh Zoe could manage 140miles, so in winter I may opt for 20/30miles extra, which would be around 7kW....

I know of someone who bought his EV, went to see a friend who agreed to let him charge at their house. Plugged it in, having found an extension lead, and it tripped the house power supply. A little bizarrely perhaps, they couldn't get it to switch back on and it took a visit by an electrician the following day to sort it out.

Don't know the full details, but EVs do take a significant amount of power. I've seen a coiled up extension lead melt because too much current was drawn through it over a period of time, but not enough to blow the fuse.

Of course, I suppose you could always carry an extension lead with you, and make sure you fully unwind it when used...

Extension leads are not advised by any manufacturer.

EVs will not draw any more power than what is being supplied. In the case of a three pin socket it would be 3.7kW and from a dedicated 32amp charger it would be 7.1kW. it wouldn't be any more sensible to run a domestic electric heater using a coiled up extension lead than it is for an EV.

A fully fitted charger would follow the same protocol as an electric oven or electric shower. I.e.ensuring suitable size wire is used.