The EV announcement - How will you act now The Quiz.

Grumpy_chap

Madmel said:

I have seen discussion here about the Citroen C4.  Are there other electric MPV-sized vehicles now on the market?

AIUI, the C4 EV is regular hatchback at present, not the Picasso MPV.  That may well follow.

MG ZS EV is lovely, SUV style.  However, small battery so short range.  If it had a larger battery, I would have bought one.

Audi E-tron, Tesla X, Jaguar I-pace are all large electric vehicles, but carry unfortunately large price tags.

Ford Mustang Mach-E is not far off.  Also very nice.

NBLondon

AdrianC said:

Train...?
https://www.thetrainline.com/train-times/whitstable-to-london-victoria

'course, Sarf Lahndun to the North Kent coast isn't actually that far. Croydon to Whitstable is 120 mile round trip.

Lewisham to Birchington is 71 or 72 miles each way. Drivable in 90 minutes if traffic gods are kind. Outbound train on Sunday afternoon means going into London and out again and takes 2 and half hours plus being picked up from the station. The last train back takes over 6 hours!

Herzlos said:

Yup, just like if you had to queue at a petrol station.

Queuing time at petrol station is usually less than 5 minutes per car ahead of me plus the same to top-up.. Queuing time at nearest charger is zero if available and undefined if not. Could be two hours?

Remember you're paying a lot in upkeep for a car (depreciation, tax, insurance, MOT's, servicing, maintenance) to use it occasionally. Maybe the huge mileage and impromptu nature means it's cost effective to do so, but again it sounds like a bit of an outlier.

I'm sure it's not the cheapest option and given the site we're on that's a "Bad Thing". But I'm able and prepared to pay for that convenience.

Even for your impromptu trips, you just need to plan a bit around charging. If you've got an EV with 200 miles range you could get to Margate and back on a single charge, so you just need to pass a fast charger once.

Maybe twice - if I cant charge at home I don't necessarily start from full. Or I arrive home on reserve.

Or you could just park it at a charger when you get to the coast.

That I've already established is nowhere near the family gathering I'm going to. So I cab it to cousin's place for an hour and then leave halfway through dinner to cab back again to fetch the car? Or do I block that charger for 4 hours and make someone else wait?

On your return, you may need to make a special trip to get your range back up to ~150 miles, but if you're coming back at midnight then you'll probably find the fast chargers empty.

Make your mind up - am I charging again on the way home or am I making an extra trip the next day?

It's more people than you think and it'll increase all the time (more range, faster charging, more chargers).

It probably will. But I dispute that it's a "vast majority" as one poster said and I did say above, that if the increase is fast enough - it will become more feasible for me.

You're honestly looking for problems that often don't exist instead of solutions.

Nope - I'm looking for options that fit with the way I use a car. At present, the potential cost savings don't weigh the reduced convenience of extra journey times and more planning on top of the outlay of changing the car.  The calculation may be different in 5 years time.  If I had a driveway, it would be quite different today.

Herzlos

NBLondon said:

AdNope - I'm looking for options that fit with the way I use a car. At present, the potential cost savings don't weigh the reduced convenience of extra journey times and more planning on top of the outlay of changing the car.  The calculation may be different in 5 years time.  If I had a driveway, it would be quite different today.

Yeah, if you want an EV to behave exactly like your current combustion car, you're not going to find anything suitable for a while that isn't going to be seriously expensive. That's never been in dispute.
You'd concede that your usage is fairly unusual though? Having a car that's kept on a street but not used for commuting or shopping, and is only used for the occasional 200 mile round trip with no planning?

NBLondon

Herzlos said:

NBLondon said:

AdNope - I'm looking for options that fit with the way I use a car. At present, the potential cost savings don't weigh the reduced convenience of extra journey times and more planning on top of the outlay of changing the car.  The calculation may be different in 5 years time.  If I had a driveway, it would be quite different today.

Yeah, if you want an EV to behave exactly like your current combustion car, you're not going to find anything suitable for a while that isn't going to be seriously expensive. That's never been in dispute.
You'd concede that your usage is fairly unusual though? Having a car that's kept on a street but not used for commuting or shopping, and is only used for the occasional 200 mile round trip with no planning?

Yes - if I were to change my petrol Focus for a battery EV, I would expect it to offer the same level of convenience.   That's the main reason I have a car....  Maybe a car club would be a better financial option but it isn't there yet in terms of instant availability.

When I bought this car it was used for a 15 mile daily commute across London; still couldn't charge at home but I suppose I could have surreptitiously draped a lead out of the office window...  Plus the occasional business trip to "could be anywhere" and forays to garden centres or a large shopping mall.   Only the last of these places has chargers - and they have these massive Tesla logos on them so a bit limited in their usefulness to me.   Changing jobs and then COVID mean the car can now go 2 or 3 weeks without use.  That might change next year.  I might have a big lottery win so I can buy a country place with a barn to put solar panels on the roof and keep an I-Pace in... (and an E-type!)

But in the real world - it doesn't work for me now.  The infrastructure you and others say is coming - that probably is coming but until I can see it closely enough to work for me, I'm going to stick as I am or maybe go self-charging hybrid next.

Herzlos

I think that'd suit you best.
However, for pretty much everyone I know an EV would do what they want but more conveniently. I'd have one now if I could afford it.

thegentleway

Herzlos said:

I think that'd suit you best.
However, for pretty much everyone I know an EV would do what they want but more conveniently. I'd have one now if I could afford it.

Except if you want a sports car!
I’d like to have an EV but can’t charge at home and walk to work. I use car to drive to gyms which don’t have chargers, nor does my local ALDI. Would be really inconvenient for me to have an EV.

Grumpy_chap

thegentleway said:

Except if you want a sports car!

I would have thought if you want a sports car with good performance, then electric is the vehicle of choice.  Even a boring family saloon with electric power is going to be fast:
Tesla Roadster = 1.9 sec 0-60
Ferrari 812 Superfast = 2.9 sec
Tesla Model 3 = 3.1 sec
Porsche Cayman = 4.7 sec
Skoda Octavia VRS = 6.7 sec
Kia E-Niro = 7.5 sec

thegentleway

Grumpy_chap said:

thegentleway said:

Except if you want a sports car!

I would have thought if you want a sports car with good performance, then electric is the vehicle of choice.  Even a boring family saloon with electric power is going to be fast:
Tesla Roadster = 1.9 sec 0-60
Ferrari 812 Superfast = 2.9 sec
Tesla Model 3 = 3.1 sec
Porsche Cayman = 4.7 sec
Skoda Octavia VRS = 6.7 sec
Kia E-Niro = 7.5 sec

Most of those are fast cars, not sports cars. Except for Ferrari and Porsche which would be great but way too expensive! I like light rwd sports cars. 

AdrianC

Quite.

The original Tesla Roadster was, of course, an electrified Lotus Elise.
The forthcoming (maybe... eventually...) Tesla Roadster is quoted as having a battery pack that's more than 100kg heavier than an entire original Lotus Elise. The entire car is quoted as being about the same weight as two original Lotus Elans.

Straight-line acceleration willy-waving is for Top Trumps and Americans.

Grumpy_chap

thegentleway said:

Grumpy_chap said:

thegentleway said:

Except if you want a sports car!

I would have thought if you want a sports car with good performance, then electric is the vehicle of choice.  Even a boring family saloon with electric power is going to be fast:
Tesla Roadster = 1.9 sec 0-60
Ferrari 812 Superfast = 2.9 sec
Tesla Model 3 = 3.1 sec
Porsche Cayman = 4.7 sec
Skoda Octavia VRS = 6.7 sec
Kia E-Niro = 7.5 sec

Most of those are fast cars, not sports cars. Except for Ferrari and Porsche which would be great but way too expensive! I like light rwd sports cars. 

Still, using "not sporty enough" as a reason to dismiss electric vehicles doesn't really stand up.
Tesla roadster (1.9 sec) beats the Ferrari (2.9)
Tesla 3 Performance (3.1) beats the BMW M2 Competition (4.4)