Wing parking ticket

Le_Kirk

Hass11 said:

Hi, quick question do they normally sent a debt collector letters without responding to appeal? It’s really 35 days and heard nothing from them

Have you had debt collector letters then?  If so, the PPC should be reported to BPA as they are not "supposed" to do this.

Hass11

Sorry for the late reply, I didn’t receive any debt collector letters. I’m still waiting for the rejection email since 11/12/20. I’m just wondering are they going to just sent debt collectors if I don’t contact them for an update to my appeal or shall I contact them. If not at what stage shall I complain to BPA ?

Redx

I would do that after another week or 2 , so 42 days or more , otherwise it's easy for them to say covid19 or Xmas holidays etc and to be considered a reasonable excuse

The more they fail on , the better for you , so assume you are in this for the long waits , in every appeal stage , because every stage is likely to be delayed , mainly due to covid19

If a debt collector letter arrives , you get to put in 2 complaints instead of one

In any case , debt collector letters can be disregarded , nobody should care about that happening , it's a non event !!

Hass11

Ok Thank you. I will wait until the 22nd then it’s 42 days. But I don’t seem to find an email for them. I made my appeal online and the email they sent is an automated one and I can’t reply to that.

Coupon-mad

Have you checked your spam email? 

I am concerned because Wing operate a stupid 3 stage appeal and it's easy to miss the middle one, because they only give 14 days for it.

I would email a complaint to the BPA as soon as you get to day 35.

Hass11

Hi, just got their rejection email today. 

Thank you for your recent letter regarding the above; we have noted your comments. We have reviewed the case in light of your appeal and we confirm that the vehicle concerned was parked in an area where parking is restricted and that the area is adequately signed to that effect.

We also confirm that the Parking Charge Notice was issued because the vehicle was not clearly displaying a valid permit.

Your appeal is based on the following grounds: • Various comments

Unfortunately, your grounds for appeal are largely irrelevant and do not affect the validity or legality of the PCN that was issued to your vehicle.

However, for your information, we can confirm that Wing Parking are contracted by our client Islington Council to carry out parking enforcement services on a number of their private housing estates and have a written and signed agreement where they authorise us to carry out this service for them. Our client will confirm that the written and signed agreement between us does provide us with sufficient legal authority to issue the PCN and to seek to recover payment of that PCN from you on their behalf. Should you with to request this from them please do so.

Whether or not there are any admissions to who was driving is currently of no direct relevance to this infringement. By considering an appeal we are merely considering whether or not the PCN was correctly issued and not assigning blame to any particular individual. Merely because there are no admissions to who was driving, does not mean that the breach did not occur. To accept this argument as genuine and reasonable grounds for cancelling the PCN therefore clearly cannot be accepted. By failing to declare who was driving you are in no way negating the validity of issue of the PCN. It merely means that whoever is sought to eventually make payment of the charge will need to prove that they are not liable.

With regards to the reason for the issue of this PCN, the vehicle was left positioned on private land where strict parking conditions applied. There is a fundamental requirement for vehicles that park at that location to display an estate parking permit and the area is signed to that effect. However on this occasion, no estate permit was on display. Please see photographs below.

The reason for the issue of the Notice is supported by photographs taken at the time and these also support our actions. If you wish to view images of your vehicle at the time of enforcement, you can do so on our website www.wingparking.co.uk. Please select the link that says "Enforcement Images" and follow the instructions. You will need to enter both your registration number and the reference number of the Notice you were issued in order to view the images. However, please note that you DO NOT have to make payment or enter any personal data or credit card details to view the images.

We have thoroughly reviewed this case and whilst we appreciate your comments and circumstances, we have acted in accordance with the instructions from our clients and the warning sign that was on display prior to the issue of the Notice. The Parking Charge Notice was correctly and legally issued and therefore the Notice and the charges must stand. We trust the above clarifies the situation.

 A period of 11 minutes was allowed before the notice was issued and our client has determined that this is more than sufficient waiting period for the location. 11 minutes is the maximum period specified by the landowner and therefore must be strictly enforced. Both the observation time and the time of issue are clearly displayed on the Notice.

As your Stage 1 appeal has not been upheld, your options now are to either pay the Parking Charge Notice or to make a Stage 2 appeal.

The charges have been held during your appeal and we will allow a further period of 28 days from the date of this letter during which you may pay the discounted charge of £60.00. Thereafter the full charge of £100.00 will be due. Your account has already been amended to reflect the lower charge and full details of how to pay are shown on the rear of the PCN or on our website, http://www.wingparking.co.uk/make-payment.html

Please note that once the Parking Charge Notice has been paid, the appeal process is no longer available.

If you are dissatisfied with the facts outlined in the reply, you also have the option of taking your complaint further, to Stage 2, by writing directly to our clients within 28 days. If you wish to make a Stage 2 appeal, please address your correspondence to:

Islington Council Estate Parking Section PO Box 70889 Islington

London

N1P 1GB

Alternatively you may email housing.transport@islington.gov.uk

The Stage 2 appeal must be made within 28 days of the date of this reply and must include:

• Your name and address

• The registration number of your vehicle

• The date and exact location of the incident

• Why you feel that the PCN should be cancelled

If you do not submit a Stage 2 appeal with 28 days, or make payment of the charge within 28 days, then the matter will be passed for further debt recovery action to recover the charge and you may incur additional charges.

If you do opt to make a second stage appeal, your case will remain “on hold” throughout this time.

Please also note that if you choose to submit a Stage 2 appeal to our clients, and you do not receive a reply from them within 28 days, you must contact us to notify us that your Stage 2 appeal reply is still outstanding so that we can look into why your appeal to them has not been processed. If you do not contact us, and a reply has been sent to you, it is likely that the case will be recorded as outstanding and further debt recovery action will be taken that will incur you in additional costs.

You may pay the charges, or you may appeal further. You cannot do both. If you do choose to appeal further, and your Stage 2 appeal is then rejected, that will be the end of the appeals process.

Hass11

Shall I use the same template for the second stage?

Redx

Yes , it's just a double process before popla , the second stage will be rejected too , then it's off to Popla with a popla appeal at stage 3 , so do stage 2 and then look for wing popla appeals over the last two years , copy one and adapt it before going to Popla , appealing as keeper throughout

So whilst the driver may be liable , a keeper is not !!

Red tape , smoke and mirrors , so just keep at it

Ps , they are wrong in saying that you must pay the charges or appeal it , you could do neither , you could ignore it completely , leaving wing with the choice of court , or not !!

But for a resolution , we suggest continuing down the appeal route , as keeper

nosferatu1001

Yes. Why waste time on them?

Hass11

So I use the exact same appeal as the first one? No changes just add my details on it?