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BITCOIN

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  • Scottex99
    Scottex99 Posts: 811 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 500 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    1. That wasn't me, check the chat.
    2. Who cares? if there's a market to buy and sell every second of the day, who's on the other side of my trades is of no importance to me. This whole "THERE MUST BE LOSERS" thing is boring at best and also flawed as per Underground's post. There's millions of trades every day, people get rekt and make fortunes all the time. I've invested in stuff that has died a slow death and I've made 50x in a month, so what?
    3. You're here all day being told what is what by people who know what they are doing and continually drudging up the same poor arguments, give it up for your sanity.
    4. When BTC hits $100k, i'm giving £1k to charity, you can have first pick at who that is, get your thinking cap on.
  • seansjt
    seansjt Posts: 18 Forumite
    10 Posts
    It is definitely going more mainstream and mass adoption is starting to take off.  It will have a place in modern society it is just a case of how and where and when
  • HansOndabush
    HansOndabush Posts: 470 Forumite
    100 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Scottex99 said:
    1. That wasn't me, check the chat.
    2. Who cares? if there's a market to buy and sell every second of the day, who's on the other side of my trades is of no importance to me. This whole "THERE MUST BE LOSERS" thing is boring at best and also flawed as per Underground's post. There's millions of trades every day, people get rekt and make fortunes all the time. I've invested in stuff that has died a slow death and I've made 50x in a month, so what?
    3. You're here all day being told what is what by people who know what they are doing and continually drudging up the same poor arguments, give it up for your sanity.
    4. When BTC hits $100k, i'm giving £1k to charity, you can have first pick at who that is, get your thinking cap on.
    1. You are right; it is patient_investor who has apparently cashed out profits 'thousands of times'; obviously none too patient with his positions then, heh heh.
    2. It matters because currency, crypto or otherwise, is a zero-sum game and that is what distinguishes it from shares which can increase in value because the company that you buy a share in is working to produce things and supply services. Bitcoin is just a speculative token but is being portrayed by the industry as some kind of wonder that you can't lose on. As has been said, it would be impossible for all bitcoin holders to cash out at the current price. That is why it matters, why it is important to point this out. That crypto is not always profit making for everyone as this thread seems to imply.
    3. I might just; not much else to say anyway until it all crashes.
    4. Hopefully you will do the same if it goes sub £1K again. As has already been suggested, a gambling charity would be appropriate.

  • thegentleway
    thegentleway Posts: 1,093 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 500 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 10 May 2021 at 3:40PM
    BearWhite said:
    So clearly we're not going to get any agreement on whether Crypto is a good investment or not, so maybe we can try and move on from that, on both sides, and make this thread useful?

    I have about 5% of my wealth in it and am interested in what people think are good long terms investments in the space. I have BTC (55%)  and ETH (35%) plus some others platform tokens. Any views here on BTC v ETH as a long term investment? The rest of my money is in global trackers and a rental property so I'm well diversified.
    My view is fairly bland I'm afraid: it's I don't know and I don't think anybody else does either. Seems reasonable to gamble a small proportion of your wealth you can afford to lose just in case it does become widely accepted.
    I wanted to ask you something though: you mention the other 95% is in trackers and property so I was wondering if you have any gold or other speculative commodities/currencies? I find it interesting that people seem to be very happy to speculate on crypto but not other more conventional speculative assets.
    No one has ever become poor by giving
  • underground99
    underground99 Posts: 404 Forumite
    100 Posts Name Dropper
    Scottex99 said:
    1. That wasn't me, check the chat.
    2. Who cares? if there's a market to buy and sell every second of the day, who's on the other side of my trades is of no importance to me. This whole "THERE MUST BE LOSERS" thing is boring at best and also flawed as per Underground's post. There's millions of trades every day, people get rekt and make fortunes all the time. I've invested in stuff that has died a slow death and I've made 50x in a month, so what?
    3. You're here all day being told what is what by people who know what they are doing and continually drudging up the same poor arguments, give it up for your sanity.
    4. When BTC hits $100k, i'm giving £1k to charity, you can have first pick at who that is, get your thinking cap on.
    1. You are right; it is patient_investor who has apparently cashed out profits 'thousands of times'; obviously none too patient with his positions then, heh heh.
    Last year on the thread, Patient was saying he had cashed out amounts  that were 'dozens of times more' than what he had invested, and this weekend he's mentioned making profits 'thousands of times over'. In that context, the number of 'times' can refer to a multiple on the initial investment rather than specifically meaning that number of trades. If you invest a fiver when it's at $50 or $500 and sell when it's at $50,000, there's 100x or 1000x return just from tucking them away - it doesn't really mean that he entered into transactions thousands of times.  So perhaps he was patient and held from $20 to $20000 before giving up work in 2017.

    To be honest, your doubling-down on how BTC is not an investment, and your telling everyone until you're blue in the face that it is fundamentally one big joke, seems like it's coloured by your not having bought it at $5 or $50 or $500 or $5000 and being more than a little bit envious of those fools that did; clearly you can't be seen to have a change of heart at $50,000 having been so adamant about $500 or $5000 or $20000 being a ridiculous price to pay, so you just have to stay in the corner you backed yourself into, and repeat how the price must be wrong because it's all worth $0 really.

    Last year on your 'liquidate portfolio until it's over?' thread you were saying in mid March that you had sold some of your equities but bemoaning that you hadn't exited nearly as much as you ought to have done and you were recommending gold and silver as protection against the inevitable further price crash and heavy inflation to anyone who would listen. But since then, while silver is up, gold is merely flat at £1300 /oz and an MSCI World tracker is 45-50% up...  And back in 2015 on your 'Anyone else making a loss on all their S&S investments?' thread, you were bemoaning how your portfolio had holdings that were down right across the board due to getting unlucky with sectors and stockpicks, and noting how you had avoided the US gains because it had seemed so overvalued (while as of now, S&P is now 2x higher than late 2015, plus five years dividends). 

    It will probably come across a bit rude to suggest it, but my guess is that you must be a bit frustrated with the calls you've made from time to time and are really quite agitated that you've called Bitcoin so wrong on top of everything else, which makes it really really important to tell everyone that Bitcoin is not an investment and they should walk away from it so that it doesn't end in tears, for their sakes.  But perhaps some of it is for your own sake too, as you'd sleep easier if BTC did crash back to $1000 vindicating your decision to leave it well alone.
  • BearWhite
    BearWhite Posts: 600 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Combo Breaker Name Dropper
    BearWhite said:
    So clearly we're not going to get any agreement on whether Crypto is a good investment or not, so maybe we can try and move on from that, on both sides, and make this thread useful?

    I have about 5% of my wealth in it and am interested in what people think are good long terms investments in the space. I have BTC (55%)  and ETH (35%) plus some others platform tokens. Any views here on BTC v ETH as a long term investment? The rest of my money is in global trackers and a rental property so I'm well diversified.
    My view is fairly bland I'm afraid: it's I don't know and I don't think anybody else does either. Seems reasonable to gamble a small proportion of your wealth you can afford to lose just in case it does become widely accepted.
    I wanted to ask you something though: you mention the other 95% is in trackers and property so I was wondering if you have any gold or other speculative commodities/currencies? I find it interesting that people seem to be very happy to speculate on crypto but not other more conventional speculative assets.
    No I don't and you raise a valid point. I've been aware of crypto since about 2014 but previously passed it off as a con until about 18 months ago, when some people I respected started buying bitcoin. That got me curious so I read up on bitcoin and when institutions started showing interest I figured it might go somewhere, hence buying some bitcoin and ether. I justify it to myself that it's just a small percentage of my assets but I do appreciate the contradiction. Personally I think it will grow in value significantly but if it doesn't it wont make much odds to me. I also wouldn't get involved with some of the smaller cap coins as they really do look like gambling.
  • User232002
    User232002 Posts: 328 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    In the post I was replying to you said that banning bitcoin was impossible due to technical considerations. All I can see in your post are observations that you believe make it difficult to do but nothing which would make it definitively impossible. So are there technical considerations that would make it impossible or is it just a case of it being difficult to do?
    Oh, did you miss you bit where I pointed out that you couldn't stop BTC trading unless you shut off the internet? I should probably add to that that I can store my entire wealth in my head with 24 words too. How are you going to ban an asset that can be traded over an all-pervasive network and effectively stored in my mind?
  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 36,973 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    darren232002 said:
    I should probably add to that that I can store my entire wealth in my head
    Many of us have that sort of wealth, unfortunately.... ;)
  • User232002
    User232002 Posts: 328 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    seansjt said:
    It is definitely going more mainstream and mass adoption is starting to take off.  It will have a place in modern society it is just a case of how and where and when
    This is true, however crypto is going mainstream because of speculative mania due to the price going up (and fears about inflation), not because the masses are actually using coins to trade goods and services, or for their intended purposes in general. So crypto isn't really being "adopted" for usage, but rather for cryptocurrency trading.
    Bitcoins use case is a protection against inflation and a better store of value than anything currently in existence. In particular, the growth of Bitcoin is partly the story of the loss of trust in central banks. As Satoshi said, "The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currency is full of breaches of that trust."

    I need to transact frequently in Bitcoin to enjoy this use case. Again, you are confusing money and currency.
  • I wanted to try Bitcoin trading and deposited 350 euro with a broker. I could not even access the site to give instructions and noticed that the firm was not fsa regulated for UK trading. I requested a refund , to no effect. I was not worried as I had paid by credit card and asked for a chargeback.....their response was no chargeback and no section 75 because a cryptocurrency is involved. I will let you know how I get on at the ombudsman.
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