BITCOIN

bugbyte_2

mooneysaver said:

Doesn't generate value? What do you call building wind turbines in Gambia?

https://mobile.twitter.com/farzad23864527/status/1451430597944020994?lang=en-GB

I think some people in here got lost on the way to their boomer stocks threads 

If my maths are correct, Safemoon is now worth 1.3% of what it was worth a year ago. Someone will come along in a minute to tell me this is actually a brilliant thing. Never say never, its logo is a rocket after all!, and looking at the tweet threads, Safemoonarmy do appear to have their very own hand gesture. That's not weird in any way.

Re: the wind turbines. Any further details such as where? when? who is financing it? who is going to own it? what % take is going to go towards burning tokens? Let me know when it actually happens please.

Zola.

https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1526029996787216387?t=rUKCFa8ZOUCeGHQJpty0bw&s=19

Probably nothing. 

HCIMbtw

Frequentlyhere said:

That's just one element. The others, brilliantly outlined in this article, is that there are a whole host of reasons as to why the space isn't just flawed from an investing point of view, but carries with it a huge list of unpleasant side effects. So even people who are immune to the childishness replies etc, often also end up being very anti-crypto.
You can read the article, but things like ransomware, damage to the environment, use for drugs/illegal material, ruining lives through gambling. It goes on and on. Each has their own rebuttal by the advocates, but these are always fallacious or entirely misleading.

The drugs, crime, fraud, damage to environment arguments just seem so clearly FUD propaganda to me. 

Electricity use is not inherently an issue if the electricity production is renewable or would otherwise be wasted. I am not saying Crypto is perfect here (it is nascent and improving) but from a climate perspective our issue is that we have chopped down to many forests, polluted our oceans and extract and burn fossil fuels. 

Regarding the crime, drugs, illicit activity.. fiat currency, cash, USD.... underpin global crime, shell companies, offshore banking 

Sure people try to exploit opportunities in new systems, whole scam syndicates are set up to exploit vouchers for iTunes and Google store as well.. 

But one point I would really like to make on fraud and corruption. FIAT currencies are manipulated and controlled by states and central banks. In the west we benefit from relative stability and controls around corruption. Many developing nations do not have the same luxury. If inflation in your country is many dozens of % because of economic instability and corruption you can barely work and live. Assets like BTC resolve issues around trust and manipulation, for a growing number of people this is a far safer asset. We jsut don't see the manipulation of our own currency as much because it is more insidious. 

Every day more people realise it is the risk off asset. 

Zola.

https://twitter.com/WatcherGuru/status/1526343627668078592/photo/1

Thrugelmir

Bitcoin has suffered more 30% declines since it was launched in 2009. Than global markets in a 100 years. Stability no longer seems one of it's attributes. 

Zola.

No longer? Who has once claimed ever it was stable? Certainly no one here. Strange point to make. 

Returns since 2009 are 11,095.63%.  But yeah, lets focus on the 30% crashes lol...

HHarry

Zola. said:

No longer? Who has once claimed ever it was stable? Certainly no one here. Strange point to make. 

Returns since 2009 are 11,095.63%.  But yeah, lets focus on the 30% crashes lol...

Zola. said:

https://www.cityam.com/warren-buffetts-berkshire-hathaway-dumps-visa-and-mastercard-stock-and-buys-1bn-in-bitcoin-fintech-nubank/

Watch what they do, not what they say. 

A number of people have suggested BTC is a store of wealth - which surely means that some stability would be a bonus.

And there’s no point focussing on the stellar return of 11,095% since 2009.  Precious few regular people will have benefitted, and no-one getting in now is going to match that over the next 13 years.  But plenty of people could still be hit with a -30%.

Malthusian

Zola. said:

No longer? Who has once claimed ever it was stable? Certainly no one here. Strange point to make.

Except for the guy who literally just 12 hours before your post said Bitcoin was the "risk off asset", apparently seriously. (FAOD, a few pages back when I said that Bitcoin was stable and it's sheeple currency that fluctuates like crazy, I was being facetious.) Considering the only way to make money from Bitcoin is good timing, that could have gone better.

That's on top of an entire thread of people claiming that Bitcoin is a store of value and the currency of the future. Which is a prophecy that has been preached since 2013 when the get-rich-quick crowd got interested.

Returns since 2009 are 11,095.63%.

Name three people who sold Bitcoin in 2022 that they mined or bought in 2009.

HCIMbtw

Malthusian said:

Zola. said:

No longer? Who has once claimed ever it was stable? Certainly no one here. Strange point to make.

Except for the guy who literally just 12 hours before your post said Bitcoin was the "risk off asset", apparently seriously. (FAOD, a few pages back when I said that Bitcoin was stable and it's sheeple currency that fluctuates like crazy, I was being facetious.) Considering the only way to make money from Bitcoin is good timing, that could have gone better.

That's on top of an entire thread of people claiming that Bitcoin is a store of value and the currency of the future. Which is a prophecy that has been preached since 2013 when the get-rich-quick crowd got interested.

Returns since 2009 are 11,095.63%.

Name three people who sold Bitcoin in 2022 that they mined or bought in 2009.

There's really no point in arguing over whether people make or lose money.. We can choose periods for significant gains or declines on a lot of assets and in this regard your challenge to name 3 people is almost entirely irrelevant, there are some legacy wallets that still hold and a person may also move there money around different wallets making it hard to determine the original time a person might've owned the asset. I believe some people do try track this through platforms like Glassnode though, if you are interested in this information feel free to research it and let us know. 

We also have to be careful about taking what somebody else has said and applying that as an argument to a person who has not made that point (and might not share the opinion). People invested in crypto assets are would you believe it capable of independent thoughts and opinion. 

In one sense I do consider BTC 99% stable, I have exactly the same amount of satoshis I originally bought and there will only ever be about 14 million BTC in circulating. Why do I say 99%, because the asset is actually deflationary, and the circulating supply will eventually decline as wallets and coins get lost over time. 

Over a longer period of time these BTC/satoshis grow in relative value as debasement and inflation eat at fiat currency.. BTC is the risk off because it cannot be manipulated in this way. 

Sure it doesn't mean the asset is not affected by sentiment, whales, leverage, call and short options markets all impact it.. but this is short term noise and long term this is irrelevant as adoption increases and FIAT currencies are debased, BTC remains fixed, finite, infinitely divisible, efficiently transactable and self custodial. 

I think it is absolutely irresponsible not to have any in a portfolio. 

lozzy1965

HCIMbtw said:

Malthusian said:

Zola. said:

No longer? Who has once claimed ever it was stable? Certainly no one here. Strange point to make.

Except for the guy who literally just 12 hours before your post said Bitcoin was the "risk off asset", apparently seriously. (FAOD, a few pages back when I said that Bitcoin was stable and it's sheeple currency that fluctuates like crazy, I was being facetious.) Considering the only way to make money from Bitcoin is good timing, that could have gone better.

That's on top of an entire thread of people claiming that Bitcoin is a store of value and the currency of the future. Which is a prophecy that has been preached since 2013 when the get-rich-quick crowd got interested.

Returns since 2009 are 11,095.63%.

Name three people who sold Bitcoin in 2022 that they mined or bought in 2009.

There's really no point in arguing over whether people make or lose money.. We can choose periods for significant gains or declines on a lot of assets and in this regard your challenge to name 3 people is almost entirely irrelevant, there are some legacy wallets that still hold and a person may also move there money around different wallets making it hard to determine the original time a person might've owned the asset. I believe some people do try track this through platforms like Glassnode though, if you are interested in this information feel free to research it and let us know. 

We also have to be careful about taking what somebody else has said and applying that as an argument to a person who has not made that point (and might not share the opinion). People invested in crypto assets are would you believe it capable of independent thoughts and opinion. 

In one sense I do consider BTC 99% stable, I have exactly the same amount of satoshis I originally bought and there will only ever be about 14 million BTC in circulating. Why do I say 99%, because the asset is actually deflationary, and the circulating supply will eventually decline as wallets and coins get lost over time. 

Your bank securely holds your wealth currently.  If you lose your login details you don't lose all your money.  The natural progression of the highlighted statement is that BTC will gradual disappear to nothing!

HCIMbtw said:

Over a longer period of time these BTC/satoshis grow in relative value as debasement and inflation eat at fiat currency.. BTC is the risk off because it cannot be manipulated in this way. 

Oh but it can. Who is to say that there won't be greater and greater subdivisions, particularly as the number of BTC's go missing over time and the 'value' goes up. That is essentially the same as inflation!  Nakamoto's anyone?

HCIMbtw said:

Sure it doesn't mean the asset is not affected by sentiment, whales, leverage, call and short options markets all impact it.. but this is short term noise and long term this is irrelevant as adoption increases and FIAT currencies are debased, BTC remains fixed, finite, infinitely divisible, efficiently transactable and self custodial. 

I think it is absolutely irresponsible not to have any in a portfolio. 

Fixed, yes.  Finite, yes - even more so, it will be diminishing as people lose their wallets!  Infinitely divisible, yes - which gives it the possibility of being inflationary and is a little like governments printing money!  Effectively transactable, debatable - you can move it about easily but actually buying things with it, not so much.  Self custodial, yes - but probably won't be so much if and as it becomes more widely adopted.

So far all Bitcoin is is another asset class for people to speculate on.  It has certainly failed as an alternative currency - I believe even some pro BTCers have conceded this.  It is certainly not a store of wealth yet

I guess that makes me irresponsible!