BITCOIN

Adyinvestment

Malthusian said:

Genuine question: how is it a gamechanger? The tax treatment of DeFi loans is simple: if you loan someone money, fiat or tokens, the interest is taxed as unearned income. The Government needs every penny it can lay its hands on and that is unlikely to change significantly.

**IF** you could store your money on a UK regulated exchange in a UK regulated stable coin and earn 10% + without any concerns about losing your capital, do you not think this would change the amount needed for retirement?

If you want £30k a year to retire you may only need £300k or less, compared to around the 1 million using a 3%ish often quoted safe withdrawal rate on this forum.

Even if taxed as income this is very favourable. But granted there are a lot of assumptions in this at this time.

User232002

Malthusian said:

lozzy1965 said:

Hmmm, not entirely sure it's surprising to hear Russia announce that, given the financial constraints imposed on it by most of the rest of the world.  It's certainly not a good thing if Bitcoin allows them financial oxygen!

Sure it is bro. The whole point of Bitcoin was to allow everyone to conduct financial transactions outside the control of oppressive governments. Turns out "everyone" includes oppressive governments. Whaddyaknow. Money is truly apolitical.

It may be unpalatable to you, but yes; the freedom to transact extends to people you may not like. Enforcing rights for people you may not like is the only true test of whether you actually believe in those rights at all. "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it."

Malthusian said:

A Royal Mint Platinum Jubilee NFT? Groan. Nothing says "future of money" like bros rushing to buy trading cards with a 95-year-old multi-millionairess on.

You really do love your strawman arguments.

NFTs were never about the 'future of money.' They have never promised to be anything to do with currency or money actually; especially because a key characteristic of money is fungibility and y'know, NFT stands for 'non-fungible token.'

As always, by conflating these properties of 'crypto' together you only serve to highlight your own misunderstandings.

User232002

Zola. said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-plan-to-make-uk-a-global-cryptoasset-technology-hub#:~:text=The government has today announced,for cryptoasset technology and investment.&text=Stablecoins to be brought within,a recognised form of payment.


"The UK government will explore ways of enhancing the competitiveness of the UK tax system to encourage further development of the cryptoasset market in the UK"

Maybe they want some bitcoin after all

Interesting..

Potentially positive. Potentially just a prelude to attempting to enforce CBDCs. Cautiously optimistic - UKs best strategy for the coming decades is probably to position itself as some kind of Singapore type EU/US facing entity. Tough gig.

Also if anyone missed these two over the last month;

Arthur Hayes on ETH as a replacement for the bond market; https://blog.bitmex.com/five-ducking-digits/

Zoltan Pozsar on 'Bretton Woods III' now that countries have seen the difference between inside money and outside money; https://plus2.credit-suisse.com/content/dam/credit-suisse-research/SearchPDF?DocumentID=1191091&DocumentType=NR%20Publication&documentClick=true&AuthRequired=true&tagFormat=PDF

User232002

mooneysaver said:

Buying Bitcoin will probably be the best investment of your life. Most people saying that Bitcoin isnt an investment and that it is gambling have very little idea why BTC is valuable. Look around, its not conspiracy theorists and rednecks buying Bitcoin, its rocket scientists, CEO's, institutions and computer programmers/STEM graduates. These guys know the way the world is going. JP Morgan in 2017 said BTC is a ponzi, in 2022 they are advising their clients to put a % of their portfolio in it and predicting prices in the $140k range. Citigroup threw out a $300k+ price prediction. These aren't idiots - they are the institutions you trust to manage your 'investments.' 

Lastly, if you know anything at all about the crypto space right now, you would know its possible to get 10% APY interest on stable coins very easily for gods sake. That is, coins denominated in USD. You deposit $10k now, you'll have $11k next year. No exposure to volatility and all denominated in USD. The only risk you have is (1) GBP/USD risk and (2) counter-party risk, which is almost negligible if you stick to the big providers. With a bit of work and knowledge, you can find 30% interest. I've been personally getting 100%+ APY interest paid and compounded daily for the last 3 months in one of the safest projects out there.

I'm not really interested in having a long discussion with people that are still babbling about ponzi's, tulips, intrinsic value or hexadecimal numbers in cyberspace. If you don't get it, I don't have time to explain it to you. But I would strongly encourage people to look in to this space because it will be the greatest wealth creation event of my generation. Its literally the internet version 2.0.

No idea why you are quoting stuff I posted a year ago, changing dates and passing it off as your own.

Cus

darren232002 said:

Zola. said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-plan-to-make-uk-a-global-cryptoasset-technology-hub#:~:text=The government has today announced,for cryptoasset technology and investment.&text=Stablecoins to be brought within,a recognised form of payment.


"The UK government will explore ways of enhancing the competitiveness of the UK tax system to encourage further development of the cryptoasset market in the UK"

Maybe they want some bitcoin after all

Interesting..

Potentially positive. Potentially just a prelude to attempting to enforce CBDCs. Cautiously optimistic - UKs best strategy for the coming decades is probably to position itself as some kind of Singapore type EU/US facing entity. Tough gig.

Also if anyone missed these two over the last month;

Arthur Hayes on ETH as a replacement for the bond market; https://blog.bitmex.com/five-ducking-digits/

Zoltan Pozsar on 'Bretton Woods III' now that countries have seen the difference between inside money and outside money; https://plus2.credit-suisse.com/content/dam/credit-suisse-research/SearchPDF?DocumentID=1191091&DocumentType=NR%20Publication&documentClick=true&AuthRequired=true&tagFormat=PDF

Zoltan is a name you look out for and listen to in my industry. 

Futuristic

ETH will be the better play for the next 3-6 months over BTC. 

Zola.

Futuristic said:

ETH will be the better play for the next 3-6 months over BTC. 

Bitcoin will be the better play forever over ETH.

Malthusian

Adyinvestment said:

**IF** you could store your money on a UK regulated exchange in a UK regulated stable coin and earn 10% + without any concerns about losing your capital, do you not think this would change the amount needed for retirement?

If you want £30k a year to retire you may only need £300k or less, compared to around the 1 million using a 3%ish often quoted safe withdrawal rate on this forum.

Even if taxed as income this is very favourable. But granted there are a lot of assumptions in this at this time.

And what underlying businesses will fund these amazing risk-free returns of 10%pa after all their costs?

If they can generate 10%pa interest in stablecoins, and if a stablecoin is as good as the equivalent fiat coin, and if these underlying investments are scalable enough to fund the retirements of the entire UK retail investor market, why bother waiting for the UK Government to spend years changing regulations? (Especially while it faffs about with selling Platinum Jubilee NFTs to the middle-aged sons of people who buy commemorative Charles & Diana wedding plates.)

Why not just hire an investment bank and raise capital from the mainstream financial markets to fund the expansion of these sources of revenue? If you can pay 10%pa in stablecoin, and if stablecoins are as good as the equivalent fiat, then you can skip the stage where the investors convert their stablecoins back to fiat, and just offer investors 10%pa in fiat.

darren232002 said:

It may be unpalatable to you, but yes; the freedom to transact extends to people you may not like. Enforcing rights for people you may not like is the only true test of whether you actually believe in those rights at all. "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it."

Thank you. Someone has at last been honest enough to answer my question on page 198, and confirm they are in favour of Russian oligarchs being able to evade sanctions if it drives the adoption of crypto and makes number go up.

It's not going to be a very popular opinion but the idea that both rioting lorry drivers and oligarchs should be able to keep their money out of the control of democratic governments and the rule of law is at least consistent.

NFTs were never about the 'future of money.' They have never promised to be anything to do with currency or money actually; especially because a key characteristic of money is fungibility and y'know, NFT stands for 'non-fungible token.'

No, you're right. They were about allowing everyone to get rich from RNG-generated digital pictures and women "taking control of their identities" by attaching it to an NFT and then selling it to middle-aged men in Dubai. And making people rich by buying memberships of an "exclusive" Internet forum and then selling it to someone else for a higher price. Even though the idea behind an exclusive members' club is that you get rich and then you get in, not the other way round.

And now they're going to help reduce the Government deficit by flogging Royal Mint NFTs. (Yep, one of those same Governments that creates the need for crypto by printing worthless paper.) The pace of change is staggering.

User232002

Malthusian said:

Thank you. Someone has at last been honest enough to answer my question on page 198, and confirm they are in favour of Russian oligarchs being able to evade sanctions if it drives the adoption of crypto and makes number go up.

Yawn. Its also allowing quick and efficient transfers to the Ukrainian government and allowing victims of war to flee with their prior accumulated wealth. That's the point of a free transaction layer - it can be used by both the 'good' and the 'bad' guys.

When a system no longer works for a participant, it is not surprising that they seek alternatives. This is how the game theory starts; participants with little to lose and lots to gain will always be the first to defect.

Malthusian said:

It's not going to be a very popular opinion but the idea that both rioting lorry drivers and oligarchs should be able to keep their money out of the control of democratic governments and the rule of law is at least consistent.

Stop it. Nobody is advocating for avoidance of the rule of law here. If you want to seize assets, you go to a judge and ask. Using executive powers in circumstances they were not designed for to seize private assets is not the rule of law or the act of a democratic government.

Malthusian said:

No, you're right. They were about allowing everyone to get rich from RNG-generated digital pictures and women "taking control of their identities" by attaching it to an NFT and then selling it to middle-aged men in Dubai. And making people rich by buying memberships of an "exclusive" Internet forum and then selling it to someone else for a higher price. Even though the idea behind an exclusive members' club is that you get rich and then you get in, not the other way round.

And now they're going to help reduce the Government deficit by flogging Royal Mint NFTs. (Yep, one of those same Governments that creates the need for crypto by printing worthless paper.) The pace of change is staggering.

At this point, you're just inventing arguments that nobody is putting forward to rant against. 

Futuristic

Zola. said:

Futuristic said:

ETH will be the better play for the next 3-6 months over BTC. 

Bitcoin will be the better play forever over ETH.

Maybe if you're a maxi and not looking to maximise returns BTC failing as SoV and inflation hedge, identity crisis. More likely ETH does a 2-4x from here then BTC can do a 2x. Great enough return for most people to take profit. 

If ETH merge to PoS is successful, it becomes significantly environmentally friendly and deflationary. Arthurs last post surprised the crypto community as he's always been btc giga bull but now wants to have 75% ETH / 25% BTC split allocation