I cannot work from home I work for the NHS

ToxicWomble

Andy_L said:

ToxicWomble said:

Yes I know the employer contribution is different but I was wondering how the employee contribution compared to the projected return .
So for anyone NOT In The NHS paying £330 a month - what would their projected annual pension be at 58 and 67

Since the employers contribution is about twice that you could ballpark the number as being 1/3rd of the NHS pension so, in the example given, £3.5 or £7k.

Thanks - which takes me back to my original point which was if it’s so good why do we have 10,000s vacancies.
Theres obviously something further/deeper causing this - so maybe having a good pension acts as a good reward for other factors such as working chronically understaffed or dedicating ones lives to help others , a good recruitment tool (not working) or both
Who knows

Barny1979

Aranyani said:

Barny1979 said:

Aranyani said:

ToxicWomble said:

If your pension is so bad and ours is so good - come work for the NHS is what I am saying 

That's not the answer though, every worker should be able to access a decent pension, and should be paid enough to fund one!

But would other workers be happier with lower wages, working conditions, no bonuses etc?

Why should they have that?  NHS staff have much better pay and working conditions than social care staff, they also have better pensions.  Its not either/or.

I'm referring to those in Private Industry that think Public Sector have it so easy and then get a Gravy Train Pension at the end.

billy2shots

ToxicWomble said:

Yes I know the employer contribution is different but I was wondering how the employee contribution compared to the projected return .
So for anyone NOT In The NHS paying £330 a month - what would their projected annual pension be at 58 and 67

When you say 'different' do you actually mean 'the NHS employer contribution is absolutely fantastic'?

Not having a pop but you are aware of how pensions work aren't you? 

Do you think people are contributing nothing/ little and getting big payoffs?

Someone's pension return (employee and employer contributions) will depend on how it's invested so if your asking what i think your asking then the answer is, it depends. 

You can only compare apples with apples though. 
Your 20% employer contributions will see you in a much much better position than someone on the same salary but enrolled on a basic workplace pension if you both also contribute the same employee contribution. 

The only way the private sector pension would have even the faintest chance of beating your return over your working life is if it was invested in a very high risk way and all the stars aligned for a few decades. 

There is a calculation somewhere that shows to have a guaranteed mid £20k pension someone would need £1m in their pension fund so that's why the NHS etc pensions are looked at with envy. 

ToxicWomble

That makes a lot of sense thanks.

I think the issue is that our pension is often used as an easy stick to wave at us by other sectors with my point being - if it’s that good, then why do we still have such big recruitment and retention problems.
If people want the good pension,come join us - but it seems for whatever reason they won’t/don’t hence why the good pension is seen as a very nice reward for a lifetime of public service and helping people.

I know the forces and police pensions aren’t as generous, but no one ever seems to have a pop at them being able to retire on full pension after 20odd years.

It just gets tiresome after a while.

Thanks again

Thrugelmir

TheAble said:

No it's correct. Just plug the numbers into a compound interest calculator using 7% as the interest rate. That's a reasonably conservative measure of the long term stock market average.

Real long term historic returns don't average 7% above inflation and after deducting fees. 

billy2shots

ToxicWomble said:

That makes a lot of sense thanks.

I think the issue is that our pension is often used as an easy stick to wave at us by other sectors with my point being - if it’s that good, then why do we still have such big recruitment and retention problems.
If people want the good pension,come join us - but it seems for whatever reason they won’t/don’t hence why the good pension is seen as a very nice reward for a lifetime of public service and helping people.

I know the forces and police pensions aren’t as generous, but no one ever seems to have a pop at them being able to retire on full pension after 20odd years.

It just gets tiresome after a while.

Thanks again

I would never judge the NHS employees based on having a very good pension scheme. 

My original point when the free drinks, free parking, half price meals was mentioned was that we in health care have the same difficult working situations that you mention (under staffed, overworked, under appreciated) but with far less 'perks' and recognition. Hell the clap for carers/key workers ended up as clap for the NHS. 
Then someone else brought pensions into it which is another factor where things aren't equal.

As you say. Everyone ultimately has their own choices to make. 
In 21 years in private health care I have not once worked alongside a former NHS staff member. I have waved goodbye to many colleagues who have left to join the NHS so once in, I believe the system to be good and rewarding, the difficulty like us in health and social care is attracting people to the role to begin with. 

 

TheAble

Thrugelmir said:

TheAble said:

No it's correct. Just plug the numbers into a compound interest calculator using 7% as the interest rate. That's a reasonably conservative measure of the long term stock market average.

Real long term historic returns don't average 7% above inflation and after deducting fees. 

Agree half a million after 37 years doesn't buy what it did at the start. But it's still not bad
Minimise fees using trackers - typically start at 0.06% for a FTSE/S&P.

unholyangel

I'm not sure about the NHS pensions, but the few public sector pensions I've seen, very little of what is being deducted in "pension contributions" is actually going into that pension pot. From memory, it was something like 20% of their contributions are actually paid into the pot. 

ToxicWomble

billy2shots said:

ToxicWomble said:

That makes a lot of sense thanks.

I think the issue is that our pension is often used as an easy stick to wave at us by other sectors with my point being - if it’s that good, then why do we still have such big recruitment and retention problems.
If people want the good pension,come join us - but it seems for whatever reason they won’t/don’t hence why the good pension is seen as a very nice reward for a lifetime of public service and helping people.

I know the forces and police pensions aren’t as generous, but no one ever seems to have a pop at them being able to retire on full pension after 20odd years.

It just gets tiresome after a while.

Thanks again

I would never judge the NHS employees based on having a very good pension scheme. 

My original point when the free drinks, free parking, half price meals was mentioned was that we in health care have the same difficult working situations that you mention (under staffed, overworked, under appreciated) but with far less 'perks' and recognition. Hell the clap for carers/key workers ended up as clap for the NHS. 
Then someone else brought pensions into it which is another factor where things aren't equal.

As you say. Everyone ultimately has their own choices to make. 
In 21 years in private health care I have not once worked alongside a former NHS staff member. I have waved goodbye to many colleagues who have left to join the NHS so once in, I believe the system to be good and rewarding, the difficulty like us in health and social care is attracting people to the role to begin with. 

 

I agree about the free stuff/discounted stuff/jump to the front of the Q etc etc

Personally - I never participated and always thought it would be better for Greggs or whoever to give a free drink to someone who really needs it rather than me who is lucky enough to still have a job and security and a wage

Singling one group out ahead of others when all are contributing is very devisive (as seen in these fora) and damaging to morale.

We have a monthly staff award in our hospital and I hate it for singling one out above the many when all (most) are working equally as hard under the same difficult and challenging circumstances.

Keep Calm-and carry on everyone 

All the best

Aranyani

Barny1979 said:

Aranyani said:

Barny1979 said:

Aranyani said:

ToxicWomble said:

If your pension is so bad and ours is so good - come work for the NHS is what I am saying 

That's not the answer though, every worker should be able to access a decent pension, and should be paid enough to fund one!

But would other workers be happier with lower wages, working conditions, no bonuses etc?

Why should they have that?  NHS staff have much better pay and working conditions than social care staff, they also have better pensions.  Its not either/or.

I'm referring to those in Private Industry that think Public Sector have it so easy and then get a Gravy Train Pension at the end.

Oh well, they're not worth listening to or trying to convince of anything.