Notice To Keeper - PPS & Rejection

marine1983

Hi,
I've digesting all of this information and trying to understand and take it all in.
I feel I've just shot myself in the foot by trying to do the right thing, the over stay was due to mitigating circumstances. I was visiting a marina where my brother was mooring a boat for the weekend, which is running ANPR technology. 
During the winter time they operate a 1hr free service. It does not state on the T&Cs board a ticket must be displayed so off I went. The car park is cut off by a steam railway track, I was stuck on the wrong side by around 15 mins. I would of made it back to the vehicle in time if this had never happened. 

I appealed to the PPC company with my mitigating circumstances and its been rejected. By doing so I guess I've also admitted to me being the driver. Wish I found this forum sooner.

I have also complained to the harbour who are playing hardball, saying they do not issue tickets and don't really want to get involved, they have mentioned they will speak to the PPC if I can prove the barriers were down. I can provide a timeline with photos on my phone corroborating my version of events. 

The next step I only have is to complain to the IAS which, from reading this forum is a complete waste of time. I don't want to hinder my case any further now. 

What are my next steps with this. Do I go back to the PPC company and send the original rubttel template? Do I submit a freedom of information request to gather my evidence?Or just wait for court and expect debt collector letters etc?

My Timeline:- This would of been my response to the habour/landowners, if this is still the best course at this point. 

I arrived on your site at 14:17 on the 17th Oct 2020, as stated by the ANPR system. 

At 14:58 this picture was taken of my son on the "Brothers Boat", we left shortly after. We were carrying out official business on your business premises. 

This picture is a screen shot of the video which shows the train coming away from the station at 15:13 to swap over. This proves we made an attempt to cross around 15:05 and were prevented to do so by the barriers. I would have been well within my time limits.

This picture shows the train disconnected on its return to the station after the swap over, time stamped 15:15, the barriers remained down during this process. 

The train is timetabled to arrive at Kingswear station at 15:10 as indicated by this time table. 

dartmouthrailriver.co.uk/web/data/page_files/Leaflets/2020/A3%20train%20timetable%20for%20website.pdf

Given that the first hour is free as stated on your website, under the parking firms own guidelines there should be a grace period of 10 minutes from the time expiry. Please note clause 13.3 does not apply as there is no clear signage, as evidenced by the parking firms own terms.

theias.org/uploads/BA5eFbbFFs8RF4brD_A90gl_0DVkomxYTxNRf16RK-U/Code%20of%20Practice%20V7%20November%202019-V1-V2.pdf

13.2 Before a Parking Charge is issued Motorists must be allowed a Grace Period save and except when 13.3 is applicable. A Grace Period is a 10 minute period at the end of a Permitted Period of Parking. 

13.3 A Grace Period is not required when the Permitted Period of Parking does not exceed 1 hour providing that the signage on the site makes it clear to the Motorist, in a prominent font, that no Grace Period applies on that land.   

Now that the timeline is established.

My ticket expired at 15:17

Add the grace period 15:27

My exit 15:35

I was late by 8 mins, which taking into account the train barriers I feel these are legitimate mitigating circumstances. 

The rejection letter is pasted below with redaction.

Dear

Re: Parking Charge Notice Number

Site:

Issue date: 23/10/2020

Further to your appeal received on 30/10/2020 regarding the above parking charge, I have now had the opportunity to review this case and my findings are below.

Parking on this site is only for authorised users. These conditions are clearly displayed on the signage on site. As this vehicle was not authorised to park at this site due to no payment having been made to authorise its stay, we uphold the decision to issue the parking charge notice.

Please see the enclosed photographs of the signage, this shows all of the terms and conditions including the fact that a valid ticket must be displayed or the vehicle is required to have an active RingGo session in place at all times.

The signage also shows at the site there is an active ANPR camera in operation. 

The ANPR camera shows you entered the site at 14:17 and the ANPR camera shows you exited later the same day at 15:35.

You were onsite for a total of 1 hour and 17 minutes.

We have fully searched our systems and we have been unable to find any payment made to authorise the parking of vehicle registration.

In the attached terms and conditions you will see it states that if required to enter your registration number to authorise parking the full and the exact details must be entered and it also states full payment must be made upon entry into the site.

Because the site is an ANPR site, the camera records all incoming and outgoing registrations, and when purchasing a ticket or activating a RingGo session, the full registration is required to be inputted so it can match with the data received from the cameras. If the details do not match or payment can not be found then a PCN will be issued, as it has in this instance.

The tariff board clearly states up to the first hour - there is no charge, up to 2 hours is £2.20, up to 3 hours

is £3.30, up to 4 hours is £4.40, etc, so you can see that to enable you to remain onsite for up to 2 hours you were required to pay £2.20.

Payment for parking is just one of the terms and conditions of parking. For a vehicle to be authorised to park at this site all the terms and conditions of parking must be adhered to.

The pay and display site is operated by cameras and therefore if the vehicle has not been authorised to park on site then a charge will be issued.

I have attached a photograph of the entrance sign which puts you on notice that it is private land, a pay and display car park, camera enforcement is in operation and to see notices in the car park.

You will notice the signage has our telephone number displayed, if you were experiencing a problem and you were unable to authorise your parking, you should have called our office to discuss with a member of staff who would have been able to offer you help and advice.

Your vehicle was found to have parked on site without payment having been made to validate its stay and I find that this charge had therefore been issued correctly.

We are therefore unable to cancel the Parking Charge Notice. Please forward a payment of £60 to reach us by 18/11/2020 or £100 to reach us by 02/12/2020 in order to avoid Debt Recovery proceedings; incurring additional costs.

Payments can be made by cheque or postal order - payable to Premier Parking Solutions Ltd, or on our website - www.pps.uk.com

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.

If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). In order to appeal, you will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this letter. Please visit www.theias.org for full details.

Please note that if you wish to appeal to the Independent Appeal Service (IAS), you will lose the right to pay the charge at the discounted rate of £60.00, and, should the decision of the IAS not go in your favour, you will be required to pay the full amount of £100.00. By appealing to the IAS you consent to PPS sharing all data that relates to this case with IAS, and if necessary with the IPC and DVLA.

However, if your appeal is dismissed by IAS, we will use their adjudication in future Court proceedings, which may commence without delay and further costs may be added.

Please be aware that if you pay the parking charge at either the full or reduced amount, you will not be allowed to appeal the matter to IAS.

If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

Yours sincerely,

Appeals Manager

D_P_Dance

IMO that sign is pants, far too much bumph in minute print, .You are parking a car, not commissioning a nuclear power  station.  A  judge earlier this year made these comments and dismissed a similar claim thusly.

"This signage contains a huge amount of wording, in varying fonts. There are
between 650 ta 700 words, by my rough count. it's well known that the average
reading speed of most adults is aground 200 to 250 words per minute. On the basis
however that this is reading a sign and there are many technical words, it would
probably take an average reader about 3 to 4 minutes to read everything on the
sign. The key part however is found be found some 140 words into the text. It is in the
middle of the sign and it says this, in capitals, then below it is a lower sized font
referring to the £100:"   DJ Harvey

In my opinion it would take longer than -3 – 4 minutes to read this lot.  I would also advise you to complain to your MP

Umkomaas

You're going to have to save all that lot for a judge in the increasingly likely event (due to COVID-related income loss) of the PPC suing you. 

By doing so I guess I've also admitted to me being the driver. 

If the Harbour is subject to statutory control and/or byelaws, and therefore 'not relevant land' under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4), the keeper was never going to be held liable in law. Identifying the driver blows that right out of the (harbour) water! 

marine1983

Identifying the driver blows that right out of the (harbour) water! - I assume correctly? By me responding its an admission of me driving?

D_P_Dance

By me responding its an admission of me driving?

Surely wording could be used to avoid that?

Redx

If a Postal NTK PCN arrived , it arrived to the keeper

The keeper responds as a keeper , avoiding the words , My , Me , Myself and I , the driver did this and that , whatever !!

So it is easy to choose the correct words to avoid admissions of guilt , people do it all the time

A windscreen PCN can be passed from the driver to the keeper , the keeper appeals

But for IPC members , it is rare for any appeal to succeed , there is no profit in granting the appeal , so they reject them

Court is where this dispute is resolved , within 6 years in England and Wales

I do not see how you can FOI anyone in this saga

The PPC will not get into a dialogue , they have made their decision

Getting the harbour master to cancel it is ALWAYS best , plan A in the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum

marine1983

Ok I responded with the PPC portal to appeal, Im sure I used wording such as me, my etc I guess being honest and having a good mitigating circumstance means nothing. I guess I need to expect court then at this stage. 

I still have a chance with the land owner who said they would talk to PPS if I can prove a timeline. Is this worth it?

Le_Kirk

marine1983 said:

Ok I responded with the PPC portal to appeal, Im sure I used wording such as me, my etc I guess being honest and having a good mitigating circumstance means nothing. I guess I need to expect court then at this stage. 
I still have a chance with the land owner who said they would talk to PPS if I can prove a timeline. Is this worth it?

Always worth a shot at the landowner - this is emphasised in the NEWBIE sticky and is called Plan A.

Redx

I also emphasised plan A 

Mitigation may work with a judge , as your witness statement of truth in a court case , being the only witness to the events on the day and to the issues

marine1983

Ok Ive sent the timeline to the habour office. See what they say on the matter. I will let you know the outcome. Thanks for the feedback and advice. 

Coupon-mad

I hope you realise, no paying this even if the landowner is useless again?