son has my savings

Aretnap

Sailtheworld said:

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

£16K is also too much for the small claims court. Above £10K the claim would be fast track or multi-track, which means a more formal process, higher fees and the possibility of significant legal costs being awarded against the losing party. Not something to be undertaken lightly. Although the OP's son doesn't necessarily know that, so the threat itself may work - or it just may make reconciliation even more difficult.

macman

The fundamental problem here is that if the son is 'doing up the house' then the money has probably long been spent. 

masonic

Aretnap said:

Sailtheworld said:

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

£16K is also too much for the small claims court. Above £10K the claim would be fast track or multi-track, which means a more formal process, higher fees and the possibility of significant legal costs being awarded against the losing party. Not something to be undertaken lightly. Although the OP's son doesn't necessarily know that, so the threat itself may work - or it just may make reconciliation even more difficult.

According to the OP he is already communicating through his solicitor so will probably have had some advice on the matter. It does make one wonder what his side of the story is and how this thread might look had he been the one to sign up here and ask for advice.

uk1

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

jonesMUFCforever

I have only read the first page of this - well actually just the first post - jackanory time!

enthusiasticsaver

There are two issues here.  The first is the reason for "giving" the money to the OPs son in the first place.  If it was to defraud the benefits system if the OP was on benefits then stirring up a hornets nest may not be the right move.  Sadly if there is no deed or written agreement it is your word against his. Personally even though I trust my children 100 % to act honourably I would not give them money for safekeeping.  Put it in a fixed term investment if you cannot trust yourself not to spend it.  Sorry that your son has acted so badly towards you.  I think though you may need to let this one go. 

Sailtheworld

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

uk1

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

masonic

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could ensnare the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

uk1

masonic said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could entrap the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

The problem with the thread is that many have projected a sort of kangaroo court mentality  based on how they think it might or should work rather than how they actually work. 

Explicitly the idea being put forward is that if a judge listens to all the evidence and decides that the cash was never intended as a gift but was handed over for safe keeping but also thought it was in order to hide the cash for benefits purposes that he/she would then decide not to judge in the OP's favour but punish them and allow the OP's son to keep it. 

It doesn't work that way.