son has my savings

masonic

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could entrap the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

The problem with the thread is that many have projected a sort of kangaroo court mentality  based on how they think it might or should work rather than how they actually work. 

Explicitly the idea being put forward is that if a judge listens to all the evidence and decides that the cash was never intended as a gift but was handed over for safe keeping but also thought it was in order to hide the cash for benefits purposes that he/she would then decide not to judge in the OP's favour but punish them and allow the OP's son to keep it. 

It doesn't work that way.

It's important not to jump to any conclusions. On that we seem to agree.

My interpretation of the idea being put forward is not that the judge would conclude that the OP's son could keep the money in the event that it was ruled that the OP had conspired to hide the cash for benefits purposes. Rather, the money would be ordered to be returned and information about the cash being hidden would be passed to the relevant authorities for further investigation. If the money is spent and the son does not have to capacity to repay it in any meaningful way, this could be lose/lose for the OP.

uk1

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could entrap the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

The problem with the thread is that many have projected a sort of kangaroo court mentality  based on how they think it might or should work rather than how they actually work. 

Explicitly the idea being put forward is that if a judge listens to all the evidence and decides that the cash was never intended as a gift but was handed over for safe keeping but also thought it was in order to hide the cash for benefits purposes that he/she would then decide not to judge in the OP's favour but punish them and allow the OP's son to keep it. 

It doesn't work that way.

It's important not to jump to any conclusions. On that we seem to agree.

My interpretation of the idea being put forward is not that the judge would conclude that the OP's son could keep the money in the event that it was ruled that the OP had conspired to hide the cash for benefits purposes. Rather, the money would be ordered to be returned and information about the cash being hidden would be passed to the relevant authorities for further investigation. If the money is spent and the son does not have to capacity to repay it in any meaningful way, this could be lose/lose for the OP.

Who do you speculate would be the informant?

masonic

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could entrap the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

The problem with the thread is that many have projected a sort of kangaroo court mentality  based on how they think it might or should work rather than how they actually work. 

Explicitly the idea being put forward is that if a judge listens to all the evidence and decides that the cash was never intended as a gift but was handed over for safe keeping but also thought it was in order to hide the cash for benefits purposes that he/she would then decide not to judge in the OP's favour but punish them and allow the OP's son to keep it. 

It doesn't work that way.

It's important not to jump to any conclusions. On that we seem to agree.

My interpretation of the idea being put forward is not that the judge would conclude that the OP's son could keep the money in the event that it was ruled that the OP had conspired to hide the cash for benefits purposes. Rather, the money would be ordered to be returned and information about the cash being hidden would be passed to the relevant authorities for further investigation. If the money is spent and the son does not have to capacity to repay it in any meaningful way, this could be lose/lose for the OP.

Who do you speculate would be the informant?

I don't know, it wasn't me who put this idea forward. Though I was under the impression that court proceedings were a matter of public record. Is it your position that it is safe to admit to unlawful acts during a court hearing if they are tangential to the hearing?

uk1

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could entrap the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

The problem with the thread is that many have projected a sort of kangaroo court mentality  based on how they think it might or should work rather than how they actually work. 

Explicitly the idea being put forward is that if a judge listens to all the evidence and decides that the cash was never intended as a gift but was handed over for safe keeping but also thought it was in order to hide the cash for benefits purposes that he/she would then decide not to judge in the OP's favour but punish them and allow the OP's son to keep it. 

It doesn't work that way.

It's important not to jump to any conclusions. On that we seem to agree.

My interpretation of the idea being put forward is not that the judge would conclude that the OP's son could keep the money in the event that it was ruled that the OP had conspired to hide the cash for benefits purposes. Rather, the money would be ordered to be returned and information about the cash being hidden would be passed to the relevant authorities for further investigation. If the money is spent and the son does not have to capacity to repay it in any meaningful way, this could be lose/lose for the OP.

Who do you speculate would be the informant?

I don't know, it wasn't me who put this idea forward. Though I was under the impression that court proceedings were a matter of public record. Is it your position that it is safe to admit to unlawful acts during a court hearing if they are tangential to the hearing?

But you did just post that opinion!

I’m not aware of full detailed word for word verbatim evidence being collected and being published anywhere.  Just the claim and judgement.

The chances of there being any repercussions is as close to zero to effectively be zero. 

masonic

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could entrap the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

The problem with the thread is that many have projected a sort of kangaroo court mentality  based on how they think it might or should work rather than how they actually work. 

Explicitly the idea being put forward is that if a judge listens to all the evidence and decides that the cash was never intended as a gift but was handed over for safe keeping but also thought it was in order to hide the cash for benefits purposes that he/she would then decide not to judge in the OP's favour but punish them and allow the OP's son to keep it. 

It doesn't work that way.

It's important not to jump to any conclusions. On that we seem to agree.

My interpretation of the idea being put forward is not that the judge would conclude that the OP's son could keep the money in the event that it was ruled that the OP had conspired to hide the cash for benefits purposes. Rather, the money would be ordered to be returned and information about the cash being hidden would be passed to the relevant authorities for further investigation. If the money is spent and the son does not have to capacity to repay it in any meaningful way, this could be lose/lose for the OP.

Who do you speculate would be the informant?

I don't know, it wasn't me who put this idea forward. Though I was under the impression that court proceedings were a matter of public record. Is it your position that it is safe to admit to unlawful acts during a court hearing if they are tangential to the hearing?

But you did just post that opinion!

No, I posted what I understood was meant by the idea that was put forward by someone else. I might have got the wrong end of the stick, but I was sure they weren't suggesting the money would be awarded to the son even if it was established it wasn't gifted to him.

uk1 said:

The chances of there being any repercussions is as close to zero to effectively be zero. 

Well as someone with no knowledge of how these things work, I find that surprising to say the least, but if you are correct then the advice you have given is suitable whatever the OP's motives were. It doesn't sit right with me, but it is what it is.

uk1

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could entrap the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

The problem with the thread is that many have projected a sort of kangaroo court mentality  based on how they think it might or should work rather than how they actually work. 

Explicitly the idea being put forward is that if a judge listens to all the evidence and decides that the cash was never intended as a gift but was handed over for safe keeping but also thought it was in order to hide the cash for benefits purposes that he/she would then decide not to judge in the OP's favour but punish them and allow the OP's son to keep it. 

It doesn't work that way.

It's important not to jump to any conclusions. On that we seem to agree.

My interpretation of the idea being put forward is not that the judge would conclude that the OP's son could keep the money in the event that it was ruled that the OP had conspired to hide the cash for benefits purposes. Rather, the money would be ordered to be returned and information about the cash being hidden would be passed to the relevant authorities for further investigation. If the money is spent and the son does not have to capacity to repay it in any meaningful way, this could be lose/lose for the OP.

Who do you speculate would be the informant?

I don't know, it wasn't me who put this idea forward. Though I was under the impression that court proceedings were a matter of public record. Is it your position that it is safe to admit to unlawful acts during a court hearing if they are tangential to the hearing?

But you did just post that opinion!

No, I posted what I understood was meant by the idea that was put forward by someone else.

uk1 said:

The chances of there being any repercussions is as close to zero to effectively be zero. 

Well as someone with no knowledge of how these things work, I find that surprising to say the least, but if you are correct then the advice you have given is suitable whatever the OP's motives were. It doesn't sit right with me, but it is what it is.

Why does it “not sit right” with you?

masonic

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could entrap the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

The problem with the thread is that many have projected a sort of kangaroo court mentality  based on how they think it might or should work rather than how they actually work. 

Explicitly the idea being put forward is that if a judge listens to all the evidence and decides that the cash was never intended as a gift but was handed over for safe keeping but also thought it was in order to hide the cash for benefits purposes that he/she would then decide not to judge in the OP's favour but punish them and allow the OP's son to keep it. 

It doesn't work that way.

It's important not to jump to any conclusions. On that we seem to agree.

My interpretation of the idea being put forward is not that the judge would conclude that the OP's son could keep the money in the event that it was ruled that the OP had conspired to hide the cash for benefits purposes. Rather, the money would be ordered to be returned and information about the cash being hidden would be passed to the relevant authorities for further investigation. If the money is spent and the son does not have to capacity to repay it in any meaningful way, this could be lose/lose for the OP.

Who do you speculate would be the informant?

I don't know, it wasn't me who put this idea forward. Though I was under the impression that court proceedings were a matter of public record. Is it your position that it is safe to admit to unlawful acts during a court hearing if they are tangential to the hearing?

But you did just post that opinion!

No, I posted what I understood was meant by the idea that was put forward by someone else.

uk1 said:

The chances of there being any repercussions is as close to zero to effectively be zero. 

Well as someone with no knowledge of how these things work, I find that surprising to say the least, but if you are correct then the advice you have given is suitable whatever the OP's motives were. It doesn't sit right with me, but it is what it is.

Why does it “not sit right” with you?

That someone could admit to unlawful activity in court and not face any consequences for said activity. Call me an idealist, but I'd like to think something like that would be followed up for the sake of the taxpayer.

uk1

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could entrap the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

The problem with the thread is that many have projected a sort of kangaroo court mentality  based on how they think it might or should work rather than how they actually work. 

Explicitly the idea being put forward is that if a judge listens to all the evidence and decides that the cash was never intended as a gift but was handed over for safe keeping but also thought it was in order to hide the cash for benefits purposes that he/she would then decide not to judge in the OP's favour but punish them and allow the OP's son to keep it. 

It doesn't work that way.

It's important not to jump to any conclusions. On that we seem to agree.

My interpretation of the idea being put forward is not that the judge would conclude that the OP's son could keep the money in the event that it was ruled that the OP had conspired to hide the cash for benefits purposes. Rather, the money would be ordered to be returned and information about the cash being hidden would be passed to the relevant authorities for further investigation. If the money is spent and the son does not have to capacity to repay it in any meaningful way, this could be lose/lose for the OP.

Who do you speculate would be the informant?

I don't know, it wasn't me who put this idea forward. Though I was under the impression that court proceedings were a matter of public record. Is it your position that it is safe to admit to unlawful acts during a court hearing if they are tangential to the hearing?

But you did just post that opinion!

No, I posted what I understood was meant by the idea that was put forward by someone else.

uk1 said:

The chances of there being any repercussions is as close to zero to effectively be zero. 

Well as someone with no knowledge of how these things work, I find that surprising to say the least, but if you are correct then the advice you have given is suitable whatever the OP's motives were. It doesn't sit right with me, but it is what it is.

Why does it “not sit right” with you?

That someone could admit to unlawful activity in court and not face any consequences for said activity.

Is your concern that they committed a crime or that they weren’t punished for it - or both?

masonic

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could entrap the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

The problem with the thread is that many have projected a sort of kangaroo court mentality  based on how they think it might or should work rather than how they actually work. 

Explicitly the idea being put forward is that if a judge listens to all the evidence and decides that the cash was never intended as a gift but was handed over for safe keeping but also thought it was in order to hide the cash for benefits purposes that he/she would then decide not to judge in the OP's favour but punish them and allow the OP's son to keep it. 

It doesn't work that way.

It's important not to jump to any conclusions. On that we seem to agree.

My interpretation of the idea being put forward is not that the judge would conclude that the OP's son could keep the money in the event that it was ruled that the OP had conspired to hide the cash for benefits purposes. Rather, the money would be ordered to be returned and information about the cash being hidden would be passed to the relevant authorities for further investigation. If the money is spent and the son does not have to capacity to repay it in any meaningful way, this could be lose/lose for the OP.

Who do you speculate would be the informant?

I don't know, it wasn't me who put this idea forward. Though I was under the impression that court proceedings were a matter of public record. Is it your position that it is safe to admit to unlawful acts during a court hearing if they are tangential to the hearing?

But you did just post that opinion!

No, I posted what I understood was meant by the idea that was put forward by someone else.

uk1 said:

The chances of there being any repercussions is as close to zero to effectively be zero. 

Well as someone with no knowledge of how these things work, I find that surprising to say the least, but if you are correct then the advice you have given is suitable whatever the OP's motives were. It doesn't sit right with me, but it is what it is.

Why does it “not sit right” with you?

That someone could admit to unlawful activity in court and not face any consequences for said activity.

Is your concern that they committed a crime or that they weren’t punished for it - or both?

This is a wind-up, right? I don't condone any law-breaking, and if someone does break the law then I believe they should face justice.

jonesMUFCforever

Nearly 3 days now since the OP visited - unless of course they have more than one username?

This T is good!