son has my savings

Barny1979

Susan1942 said:

I am wondering if anyone can give me any advice here.  It is my intention to renew my lounge, dining room, and hall carpet.  I also intend to by two new sofa's and new curtains. I also want to have the hall redecorated.
I am wondering whether it is best to take the money from a S&S Isa or to use money I have in my current account.  I reckon it will cost around £14,000 or so maybe a bit more.  I have got well over this in my current account.  However with the way things are going for investments I am wondering if  the ISA might be the sensible choice.   I would appreciate views on this  Thank you Sue

Think you're a bit confused, you need to set up your own thread.

Susan1942

I realise that and I have just started a new post 

minimalising

My mum put some of her money in my account with a view to me looking after it until she needs it or it gets split between me and my brother and sister when she's no longer around.  Is no worries.  I transfer it around to get the best rates, keep her aware of where it is and it's there if she needs it.  

Sailtheworld

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

IF the OP passed the cash to her son with the intent to defraud the benefits system then don't you think your suggestion to take him to court based on nothing but a rather frantic few lines on MSE might be ill advised?

IF the OP passed her life savings to her son for safe keeping but still declared that she had £16k of savings when claiming benefits then that would seem to be really helpful to her case don't you think?

I think you must be able to see that your suggestion is poor advice because it was issued based on speculation about motivations and didn't consider, in any way whatsoever, the potential unintended consequences.

Your judgement was impaired because you were more interested in claiming the moral high ground.

Sailtheworld

uk1 said:

masonic said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

There are a number of possible reasons the OP might have transferred the cash to her son, some legitimate, some falling into grey areas, and some falling foul of the law. Some clarifying questions were asked, but so far the OP does not appear to have returned to the thread to read any of the replies.

I personally have no problem with advice being dispensed that would result in justice in an unanticipated form (though I stopped short of offering any advice that could entrap the OP should we not have the whole story). Others may wish for the best outcome from the OP's perspective whatever the circumstances.

The problem with the thread is that many have projected a sort of kangaroo court mentality  based on how they think it might or should work rather than how they actually work. 

Explicitly the idea being put forward is that if a judge listens to all the evidence and decides that the cash was never intended as a gift but was handed over for safe keeping but also thought it was in order to hide the cash for benefits purposes that he/she would then decide not to judge in the OP's favour but punish them and allow the OP's son to keep it. 

It doesn't work that way.

You're speculating that you know how things work and nobody else does.

Nobody has said, or even implied as far as I can see, that a judge would rule against and punish the OP if they suspected the motivation for the transfer was fraudulent. You can though, I'm sure, see that taking someone to court, 'winning' but leaving with your own integrity & honesty in doubt might be a rather sub optimal outcome.

uk1

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Sailtheworld said:

uk1 said:

Bella2016 said:

back in 2916 I put 16000 in my sons bank account for him to keep for me so I didn’t use it as I wanted it for my retirement then we had a argument over my grandson in November 2019 and in March I asked my son in a text message to transfer my savings as due to the locked down coming I needed to use some of it and he messaged me back saying what money I haven’t got your money I said the 16000 I have for later in my life he denied having it then I said do your not giving it back to me 
then a few weeks after that he said it’s not my money it’s rent money that I saved for him over 5 years where he didn’t even pay that amount in rent over that time and I’m a single parent and a carer to my daughter who has special needs so why would I do this and why would I give all my savings to one of my kids and not the other 2 since then I’ve had a solicitor letter from him saying I’m lying about it’s my saving so I e gone to CBA and the lady was so lovely she helped me with a letter to his solicitor as I have mental health issues I was in hospital last year which my son knows this this is killing me how he can do this to his own mother and to the point I have so many debts I need to pay I’m sitting here with a smashed phone screen my glasses are broken with only one arm in them while my so called son sits with all my life saving doing his house up with his new girlfriend I’m heartbroken 

Sympathies.

You need to get the advice of a solicitor.  Ask the CAB if they can recommend a sympathetic one. Can one of your other children give you support?

There appears to be no dispute that he had the cash only your intentions in giving it to him.  If this goes to court it will be a matter of whose version of events the judge believes.  If you have any texts or letters either between you and him or to others about this cash it will help you.  Do not believe that you need to prove your intentions to a level of 100% certainty and that having little written evidence means your situation is impossible.  Judges are good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. If on balance the judge believes your version is the more likely then you should win.  However before you start you need to be certain that if you win then there are assets or cash that can be used to pay you back. 

Genuine sympathies and good luck.  Do post progress here and as any questions you have. 

This is quite poor advice. The OP's motive for handing the money to the son matters. If it was to defraud the benefits system the last thing they need a judge who is good at testing the honesty and credibility of witnesses by asking penetrating questions. Sure, a judge might conclude they did intend to defraud the taxpayer and it wasn't a gift - mother & son leave the court as confirmed liars.

In the first instance they'd be better off doing what most people would do in this situation. Talking to their son and  trying to reconcile the difference of opinion between what the money was for. Perhaps using the threat of a small claim might help. £16k is too much to use the free mediation service.

The likelihood is that the money has gone forever and there's no point giving the OP false hope of recovery. 

Advice you disagree with doesn’t make it bad advice. 

The £16k is really important to the OP. However, it's probably not worth inadvertently admitting to benefit fraud to recover. That's a potential outcome of your advice.

Please paste where the OP stated they had passed the cash to her son as a benefit fraud. 

IF the OP passed the cash to her son with the intent to defraud the benefits system then don't you think your suggestion to take him to court based on nothing but a rather frantic few lines on MSE might be ill advised?

IF the OP passed her life savings to her son for safe keeping but still declared that she had £16k of savings when claiming benefits then that would seem to be really helpful to her case don't you think?

I think you must be able to see that your suggestion is poor advice because it was issued based on speculation about motivations and didn't consider, in any way whatsoever, the potential unintended consequences.

Your judgement was impaired because you were more interested in claiming the moral high ground.

You are the one making presumptions and judgements not me. 

The OP didn't state that they were claiming benefits although it is obviously entirely possible.  But I made no judgements at all.  I offered another alternative path for the OP without making the judgements others did without the facts and one which may if explained to the son might nudge some middle ground and compromise.  Virtually no threats of litigation result in the need to trouble the court but sometimes a letter from a solicitor solves the problem - if no other approach has worked.

The only high moral ground I took was simply the one of not making fact-less judgements and snide implications but try to offer constuctive suggestions and help whether you think poor or not.  If that seems to be a higher moral ground to you then it says more about you than me - and for that I plead guilty. 

Anyway this thread has now served it's purpose I think and is just wasting too much time.

EDITED: You've added a further comment whilst I answered the previous one and it is now becoming a pointless repeitive argumentative exchange so I'll leave it there ......

masonic

uk1 said:
Virtually no threats of litigation result in the need to trouble the court but sometimes a letter from a solicitor solves the problem - if no other approach has worked.

Bringing discussion back to the topic of moneysaving, the OP could save herself ~£100 in solicitor fees by composing and sending a letter warning she will take him to court if he doesn't return the money and send this recorded delivery to either him or his solicitor. She has mentioned getting some help with a letter from the CAB, so may already have done this. Since the son has already engaged a solicitor in this matter it is likely he is prepared for the consequences.

uk1

masonic said:)

uk1 said:
Virtually no threats of litigation result in the need to trouble the court but sometimes a letter from a solicitor solves the problem - if no other approach has worked.

Bringing discussion back to the topic of moneysaving, the OP could save herself ~£100 in solicitor fees by composing and sending a letter warning she will take him to court if he doesn't return the money and send this recorded delivery to either him or his solicitor. She has mentioned getting some help with a letter from the CAB, so may already have done this. Since the son has already engaged a solicitor in this matter it is likely he is prepared for the consequences.

Excellent advice. Some cab-friendly solicitors have a low-cost/free short consultation.  You get the impression that this isn’t going to be resolved sadly.  

k3lvc

10 pages and 5 full days of speculation/willy-waving (or female equivalent) without the return of the OP - this must be a record

Sailtheworld

masonic said:

uk1 said:
Virtually no threats of litigation result in the need to trouble the court but sometimes a letter from a solicitor solves the problem - if no other approach has worked.

Bringing discussion back to the topic of moneysaving, the OP could save herself ~£100 in solicitor fees by composing and sending a letter warning she will take him to court if he doesn't return the money and send this recorded delivery to either him or his solicitor. She has mentioned getting some help with a letter from the CAB, so may already have done this. Since the son has already engaged a solicitor in this matter it is likely he is prepared for the consequences.

Although not clear it seems a fair assumption that the OP is on benefits. The son will have a far better idea whether she declared these savings when claiming. If she has then her case seems watertight because there's some decent documentary evidence that she considered herself the owner of the funds all along. I rather suspect the son wouldn't have bothered engaging a solicitor if these were the facts so it's probably worth sending a letter but it has the look of an empty threat about it and it sounds like this has already happened.

It's probably not a good idea to transfer money to family members even if there's a level of trust and, even then, there should be at least a modicum of documentary evidence (just an email) about what it's for. Of course if someone transfers money to a family member to defraud the benefits system they shouldn't really be surprised that they're the only dishonest person in the family.

This thread reminds me of GCSE English. Write a thousand words about two lines in Lord of the Flies.